Habs boys or common entrance?

[Toratoratora]

Hi everyone , I have 2 sons at habs boys in elstree in the prep school and am thinking of moving them to a prep school that takes them to common entrance standard with good links to Winchester, St. Paul's, Eton, Radley, Harrow and the rest.

Obviously I'm somewhat torn - in habs they are at a good school with great academic results, but not happy with the school management (arrogant and unresponsive) or the overall feel of the school (not great at sport, slightly uninspiring set of other children/parents, and for a school with such high academic standards, there are too many duds).

Has anyone else gone down this route? I'm attracted by the boarding option at 13 which in unavailable at habs and I think he will be in much more like-minded company, with a richer set of extra curriculars and academic options (early languages, Latin etc).

Any advice welcome from people who've made the switch or have boys in both systems.

Thanks in advance.

... too many duds??

How old are they, what entrance points would you prefer (or are you looking for ad hoc places), what is your max travel time for a day school, from what age would you consider boarding?

slightly uninspiring set of other children

?? What were your expectations? How inspiring should they be?

I think he will be in much more like-minded company

Although Habs is academically selective, the intake is socio-economically mixed, especially in the senior school. If he stays there, you are risking exposing your children to the hoi polloi.

The brightest DCs don't spend their time being 'inspiring' and exchanging great thoughts, especially in younger years. That won't change in a boarding school. The extracurricular and other opportunities would be different. The management are there to do their best for the DCs normally but not necessarily respond to parental demands

Its my impression of the children. I don't expect inspiring discussions, but I do think there's not the focus on independent thought that I've seen elsewhere. I'm certain many parents are perfectly happy there. I am not. In any case, this is not the place to have a debate about social status, I'm just interest in whether anyone has had experience of both systems.

My point exactly. Far fewer hovering parents at boarding school, whereas habs is full of them, which I don't think is necessarily great for the boys and probably explains the attitude of management to a degree.

I would look to move them as early as next academic year. That was they have 4 and 5 years to prepare for common entrance and enter senior school at 13plus. Any later I think and they start missing out on bits of the curriculum that are essential for CE and not covered till year 6 elsewhere. (Ie French).

Your description of Habs is like nothing I have ever heard of. It's one of the best schools academically in the country with truly outstanding extra curricular including sport. I am not sure what you think you will find elsewhere. The Central London preps certainly don't have great sport and the other local preps are either less academic or rarely feed into the kind of schools you mention - exits are to places like Merchant Taylor's, great school but not that different to Habs.

I take your point about hovering parents but that's going to be the same anywhere and yes, management may well be arrogant. Habs isn't for everyone, I know it very well but uninspiring isn't one of the criticisms I have ever heard levelled at it. Pushy, competitive, academic, unsympathetic to those struggling and arrogant absolutely yes, heard that a million times but uninspiring, no never heard that.

Clearly you have issues with the fact that the school is racially, culturally and economically mixed. It's a true multi cultural school, absolutely representative of the local area with lots of Asian, Jewish, black and Chinese children as well as White English Christian and perhaps your comment about them being with like minded children is that you have a problem with that mix?

I do take issue with your assumption. Rather a rash judgement.
I Have no issues with the multiculturalism - coming from one of those cultures myself.

Are you a teacher? how are you judging who is and isn't a dud? They haven't done 11+ or 13+ yet. You may be surprised.

The parents are uninspiring to? I didn't realise the parents had a role to play in your inspirational leanings as well, no doubt the parents at Eton, Radley etc will be highly inspiring bearing in mind you'd hardly ever see them, but then you don't like 'hovering parents' either..........really can't win here!

You will find ethnic minorities really dominate top schools like St Pauls and Westminster. Presumably because of the intense work ethic and the importance placed on education that is dominant in some of these cultures. In fact the only group not seen is the white working class!

”. . . and for a school with such high academic standards, there are too many duds.”

OP, you brought a smile to my face early this Saturday afternoon which broke out into laughter .

I think I know what you mean generally about Habs Boys (once upon a time I was very keen on the school) but what I’m confused about your post is, how is that there are so many ‘duds’ in a highly academic school like Habs Boys?

But seriously, I don’t think Habs is a “suitable” school in preparation for entry to the schools you aspire for your sons to go to - those schools you mentioned are premier public schools! Preparations for entry to them require specialist knowledge and skills by (mostly) traditional prep schools who have specialist teachers. Particularly so if one aspires to win scholarships of any descriptions to any of those schools you mentioned.

For example, in my time I mentioned a few top and well known junior private schools here in the north London area to Eton but Eton just brushed them off with two simple words, “not suitable”.

Look, if you want your children at a top public school then there's no point having them at Habs, it doesn't prepare for common entrance, never has and never will. Its methods are tried tested and hugely successful. For every parent who pulls their child out there are a hundred parents who would sell their soul for a place. So if you aren't happy then move your boys but the grass may well not be greener in another prep school but if you want a top end public school then you are currently in the wrong place.

I will say that the senior school will be different. Some of the boys from the prep will leave and some terrifyingly bright boys will join and that's where you will see the intellect and debate come in. You will also find that you have far less interaction with the parents as most boys will come on the coach. What you won't get though is a whole school of super rich families or aristocrats like at public school. Of course there will be those for whom the fees are a drop in the ocean but there will also be a significant minority of boys whose families are sacrificing everything they can to pay the fees and many on hefty bursaries. There will be the over tutored middling boys struggling to keep up and many many with an intellect which is off the scale.

Thank you both, these are really helpful posts.

What I mean by "duds" - Saturday morning shorthand clearly lost on the "get offended at everything" brigade - is that there are a whole cadre of boys who fall behind and struggle through it. I hear it from my sons, I hear it from other parents. They will exist everywhere of course.

My gut says my boys will be happier elsewhere where there's more to it than the weekly spelling test. They're coping fine with the academics but they're telling me there's not much else that's inspiring them and I have to listen to what they're saying. We've tried them out at other more traditional preps - and in actual fact - the slightly gung ho anything goes all rounder types - of the sort these schools develop is more in tune with our values and their personalities.

I just wanted some views on whether it was too late to move or not.

And the prospect of boarding of course

But OP do you not think you are being a little offensive?

It is perfectly possible to consider sending your child to boarding school without denigrating the staff, the parents and especially the children at the school you currently use.

(And every single boarding prep will have children who find things easier or harder than average.)

If you're interested in changing schools the first step is to read about 30 websites. Narrow things down - then perhaps come back for more focused opinions. As things stand you don't seem to have a specific question ...

And no it is not too late to move. Year 7 would be tricky unless your child is very bright and you have already met all senior school application deadlines.

Hello again. Not meant to be offensive - I've not singled out anyone and have been perfectly cordial. Certainly don't expect this sort of vitriol on the back of it.

They've had great teachers and friends there. And as I said the results are superb. However, I'm not convinced my children will reach their potential and be happiest there and there are some sharp edges to the place as I described above that I'm not a fan of.

Lots of reading to do, yes, so appreciate the advice.

I agree that the senior school entrance exams will bring an influx of very bright, high achieving boys.

However, as other posters have said, Habs is not designed as a feeder school for the most socially prestigious public schools. 11-13 year olds at true 'prep' schools are preparing for the CE, so if this is your end aim then you need to move them before they go up to the senior school.

Two points:

Firstly, there will be parents of boys at your school reading this thread ...

Secondly - and trust me on this - it doesn't matter one jot how close the links are between a stellar prep and the senior schools you mention. No prep can guarantee your child a place at a particular school.

Forgive me for relentless posting - but do you honestly think the parents of 8 or 9 year old boys at boarding school don't hover? Of course they do! There every day if they can manage it ...

It sounds as though you have already made your mind up to be honest. You are obviously ambitious for your boys, and both they, and you, feel they need a greater academic challenge.

A good prep school will educate them well, and will also give you the best advice as to where they should go on to at 13. The schools you list are often mentioned together, but they are all quite different from each other and you need to choose the right one for your children.

"Not great at sport"...my experience at a leading senior school is that the students who excel at sport do so because their parents have nurtured the talent at clubs outside the school setting.
Sports scholars are invariably those who are playing at county or above standard by the age of 12 and are bought in by the school. First teams are dominated by these students.
Boarders, however talented, find it difficult to compete at the highest levels, because they are not able to go to the extra evening and weekend sessions required to continue to develop along the critical paths. So if you have athletic children and want them to do well at sport I suggest you sign them up at the local tennis/football/hockey club rather than relying on the school to develop their talents for you.

zero as the parent of boys who boarded at "8 and 9" I can categorically say I never hovered and certainly wasn't there every day regardless of whether I could manage it or not. Neither were most if the other parents.
OP have you registered your DS's with Radley or some of the others you mentioned, some require earlier registration than others? Weekly spelling tests do occur in boarding preps but as most are non selective (don't know anything about Habs) they are definitely less pressured, I suspect they are less likely to turn a boarder line Eton/Westminster/Winchester child into a strong candidate than a pushy day prep, but the good ones will get most strong candidates into them but still retain a relaxed atmosphere. I think a independent prep is good the head is likely to offer impartial advise, prepare for scholarships into a variety of schools and also prepare for CE. I don't know Habs at all but however good a school it is (or isn't) it doesn't mean it's right for your DS's or you for that matter if you send the to a prep you'll have more choice.

Drink is not exactly correct. Many boarding schools have top you sportsmen/women even some representing their country. It depends what the sport is, the level and amount of coaching you're likely to get, at some boarding schools for say rugby a boy could easily get more coaching opportunities more than a day child could access, on the other hand if you chosen sport is one only offered in a minor way, therefore only one afternoon a week e.g. Fencing then your going to struggle to become the British National Champion. All boarding schools vary in how much of a particular sport they offer and also the level of coaching you cannot make sweeping generalisations.

Very helpful - thanks. Sadly I suspect from what you've said too late for the eldest who will be pushing onto the senior school soon. Hope yet for the little guy though...:)

Regret if anyone took the Saturday morning freehand to heart. First time poster lesson learned.