London schools, not academic girl

[areyoutheregoditsmemargaret]

My cousin has a y 5 dd who's not at all academic. She's in a private prep school and apparently the teachers are saying she would struggle in a large state secondary (which would be ideal from a financial pov, but anyway to get a "good" comp the family would have to move and it may be a bit late in the day for that).

The school also said, however, that even previous "banker" schools for less-bright dcs were much harder to get into these days and nothing could be guaranteed. So what's my cousin to do? Where could she consider? She's in N London but I think she's resigned to a potentially long journey for the right school - atm, she's worried her dd will end up with nothing suitable.

as she is at a private prep the head of the prep really is in the best position to advise her of suitable schools and should be doing so!

does he think she may not get into any of the secondaries? if so, what are her state options?

Sorry it's not clear, is she looking for private or state?

State would be ideal financially, but the mum seems resigned to private. I don't know the names of the nearest state secondaries to her, but she's not overwhelmed by them. The problem is the head seems to be saying the privates are all getting harder and harder to get into and nothing can be guaranteed.

Well my not so academic Dsis went to Queenswood, not a million miles away, lovely school.

Honestly 93% of children attend state schools. Most of them are not academic high fliers. I think your cousin needs to find out how her daughter compares with the national average. Not being able to get a place at top private girls school does not mean that she is stupid. Does the girl have learning difficulties?

There are plenty of private schools for nice but dim girls just outside North london.

My cousin isn't looking for a top private girl's school, that's the point, she's looking for somewhere for a below-average girl. There are mild learning difficulties. What are these "nice but dim" schools? Will suggest Queenswood to her.

Sorry, tiggytape x-posted. She has been to see all the close state schools and she wasn't impressed: they seemed great for high fliers, but not so good for those needing more help/smaller classes. I agree the head's words sound confusing, but I wasn't in the meeting, so can only go on hearsay.

I think the head is right to the extent that all private schools inside the M25 are harder to get in to, and are tending to become more academically selective as the way of managing numbers.

I think it would be worth her viewing both Francis Holland schools (the Sloane Square one is a longer journey, but has a newish head from outside London who is very keen to have a non-pressurised environment), Portland Place, St James and Queensgate.

Unless you live very close to a state school, qualify for a statement (has that been explored for her specific issues?) or have exceptional social/medical needs, then it's pretty hard or impossible to be sure which state school you will get (especially with alondin population densities), but definitely worth looking at the closest and applying to any that are suitable for her needs (it's a 'nothing to lose' option).

Prehaps saying nice but dim, but I can list some private schools which aren't particularly selective near north London.

Royal Massonic school for girls and Alderham are not particularly seletive and both offer weekly/ flexiable boarding. As you get further out most private schools are not particularly selective. Many private schools need bums on seats and only turn away children with substantial learning difficulties that they truely cannot cope with.

If your cousin's daughter has substantial learning difficulties then Egerton Rothesay School (www.eger-roth.co.uk/) in Berkhamsted would cater for her.

I feel that your cousin needs to get an independent assessment of her daughter's ablity. There might be nothing wrong with the child's intelligence and everything wrong with the quality of the prep. I suggest that your cousin gets a tutor or an educational pycholgist to assess her daughter's learning ablity.

Sorry what I meant is that no school wants to admit for catering for nice but dim.

The girl has been assessed thoroughly by ed psychs etc, there are definite issues but not enough for a statement. Thanks for the various suggestions, will get the mum to check them all out. I think what would be ideal is a senior version of the prep which has definitely enhanced the little girl's confidence. She was in the state system until yr 2 but really struggled to keep up with her peers (who did sound like a pretty precocious bunch) and this school has helped hugely in that regard.

A really lovely school with small class sizes and really builds confidence, producing all-round nice girls is St Catherine's in Twickenham. Have met a couple of recent students. I don't think it's highly selective but well worth your cousin talking to them.. If it's not too far/ hard to get to!

For weekly boarding, Kent College, Pembury? Again, have met some lovely girls who went there and others who are there now. We went to have a look too... Lovely location, good facilities. Nice staff. Unfortunately, couldn't quite convince DH to let DD board! I boarded, and loved it, but obviously I'm not a good advert for boarding!

Could your cousin ask the ed pychs for recommendations where the little girl could go to school. Unlike strangers on the internet, the ed pych has actually met this little girl. Private ed pychs get to see a lot of private schools and are not trying to sell anything. The whole point of going to an ed pych is to get the right education for a child.

Agree with Really Tired. There are a few smaller schools across London which tend not to be as well known, which often do a good job with the less than stellar. There is certainly one in North London which picks up good reviews from the couple of parents I've met, but whose name escapes me. Portland Place is another, though more central, and which take from the whole ability range. Is Queens College accessible? More House? And I assume there may be a few if you look further out from where she lives.

The Head is absolutely right on one thing. Schools which used to be seen as bankers, weren't this year. Demand is rising. However with a bit of research you should find somewhere suitable. Children can change a lot during secondary years, but maintaining confidence is vital.

Thanks so much, this is really helpful. Needmoresleep if the escaping name returns, please let me know. Boarding won't be an option, St Catherine's might or might not be too far a journey. And yes, I'm sure my cousin will be asking all sorts of advice from people who actually know her dd, that's how she ended up with the current prep, which is working out but sadly, doesn't go on forever.

More House is a lovely school she should look at. There are only 200 girls in the school so it has a lovely family feel to it.

Ahh, with a bit of help from Google it came back. And with the health warning that this is on the basis of a casual conversation with a dad at County sports event and with another parent whose daughter moved to somewhere more academic for sixth form but was happy with the gentler, nurturing experience till then. The point was more that MN education conversation tends to be focussed around the selectives, in part because that selectivity causes such anguish. At times you can end up wondering how everyone has such genius children, but in reality this is not the case. And there are schools, The Hall in Wimbledon, St Augustines Priory in Ealing, St Dunstans in South London to name but three, which locals will know about and use and which some other children will commute a bit further to.

Anyway the North London school I was thinking of which seems to take less academic children was King Alfreds in Hampstead.

There will be others. And if the same pattern holds as does in the bits of London I know better, you may find the further out you go, the less selective and more inclusive schools become. And some may have bus services to cater for London children.

Also be aware that people can be quite sneery about less academic schools. It does not matter. What you want is the right school for the child.

You should engage the Head though. He is probably right in being cautious, some weird things happened this year, certainly in the bits I know. However he should have contacts and should try to sell the girl's strengths to suitable schools. Despite what appears on MN, not all children can be academic, and attributes such as kindness or emotional intelligence are equally important in adult life.

Good luck. We went through this at 11+, with the Head saying out dyslexic DD could not cope with an academic secondary. In the end our DD got into a more academic school than predicted. She then started flying in the run up to GCSEs. The really important thing though was to keep her confidence up, in part through finding extra-curricular activities she was good at, and to be open minded about future options.

Another central school often used by those struggling to find places at more selective schools is St James' Girls School in Kensington. I think you need to be comfortable with the ethos, but DD has met a couple of very nice girls from there, and they seem to get good results relative to their intake.

What about Mill Hill. They seem to fancy themselves more academic but the reality appears to be that they often have plenty of spaces and it has a fairly good reputation for being nurturing and wonderful facilities.

Portland Place is good for less academic pupils but its facilities aren't great and it's more expensive than many private schools.

Good suggestions here already so just filling in with a couple of names:

Is North Bridge House one to look at?

Also, looking at those with a small year group but knowing nothing about it at all: Davies Laing and Dick College

Does Davies Laing and Dick take from 11 now?

There will be options but I'm afraid I don't know North London at all well. I think it's helpful to remember that London isn't like the rest of the country.

I would avoid any really small private schools as such schools often have a high turnover of children. It can be hard to find a friend in a small class. I attended a school called Canbury, in Kingston for a year. It was a truely miserable experience as the school was too small to provide a rounded secondary experience.