Secondary school appeal: am I just wasting my time?

[richmal3]

My DD missed out on her first choice school by 250m (on a distance of 18km). I queried the route they'd used, and they remeasured using my route and discovered that I was right and they'd been using the wrong route for years. However, they then had to remeasure for all the children who'd been offered a place and in the end she still didn't get a place (although the distance she missed out by had gone down to 170m).

I've been reading various threads about waiting list allocations: it seems most LAs have already started. Ours doesn't start looking at the waiting list until Apr 14, which is the same day as the deadline for submitting an appeal. This is a bit irritating as obviously it would save a lot of people a lot of work to know that they'd got a waiting list place and didn't need to do an appeal.

I'm thinking about appealing but don't feel I have strong grounds and wonder if it's worth my while. The key factors are that:

a) DD is very bright but not confident socially and has been subject to pretty much continual low-level teasing (I wouldn't go so far as to call it bullying) at primary. She's seen as different because she has very strong opinions, doesn't have all the latest stuff, doesn't watch tv, doesn't have the cultural references that many of the other children have. The school she chose is a small rural school, where the staff know all the children, and - according to the people I know who have children there - is a very friendly and supportive place. The one she's been allocated (I know this isn't about appealing against a school, but just for information) is a very large urban school and it just feels quite a scary place for a very sensitive, slightly unconventional child. If I raised this as an issue, would the appeals panel want some evidence from her school to back it up? We've only addressed it with school a few times as DD has not wanted us to bring it up on most occasions, saying she preferred to deal with it herself.

b) the school DD chose has maths as a specialism. I understand that this doesn't count for much now as there is no funding for specialisms, but could I use this as an issue? DD is not a maths genius by any stretch of the imagination, but she's at level 5 and her teacher is going to put her in for the level 6 SATs paper. I think she has the potential to do really well in maths and would like her to be encouraged in this. The school also has very good english results - this is her favourite subject, and she's at level 6 (her teacher actually said she thought she was working at level 7), and I'd really like her to be challenged in this area as she complains that the work at primary school is too easy.

Neither of these feel like very strong grounds for appeal, however. Does anyone have a view on this? Also, is the fact that she missed out by 170m on such a long distance of any consequence, or is that irrelevant? Any advice very gratefully received.

I would appeal. It is far more possible to win at secondary than at Infants.

But in my opinion if she is a quirky child a larger school might be a better fit, as she is more likely to meet other children like her.

Grounds you could use though are: any interests she has which are better provided by the preferred school - what clubs/subjects do they offer that the other doesn't? What are your DDs interests and ambitions?
Personality type issues are better if you can get a GP or similar to write to say this is the only school which can meet her needs.

That's funny, I would have thought a small rural school would be worse for unconventional types (worse than big city diversity). I live in an area of small rural schools, it's very insular everybody knows everybody and their whole history, non-conformity can be very poorly viewed. Being different not well tolerated at all.

The appeal threads fascinate me because things that don't matter on first round suddenly become extremely important. Never fear, I don't think that anybody on the panel would raise as subtle a question as I just did, though.

I don't think you can ever appeal on academic differences, so you'd have to try to establish a strong case that the urban school would be a painful bad place for her & the rural school a good supportive place.

Another saying bigger schools offer more diversity.

DS quirks were very obvious in his small rural school. In a bigger comp he was one of many who were unconventional.

Dd1 is quirky and really struggled in her single form entry primary

She's now yr 8 in a 10 form entry school and has proper friends for the first time in her life

Quirky dd2 will be starting at the same school in September -hopefully she will have the same experience

Bigger school = bigger opportunity to find like minded friends

You can't appeal against the larger school, you can only appeal for the one you chose (iyswim?).

Maybe she would be better at bigger school with more chance of finding other children like her, but I'm not convinced. We were shown round school of choice by a yr 8 girl, who happily told us that she was 'a bit weird' (she didn't elaborate on why) but said that she'd been able to make friends there and felt much more accepted than she had in primary school. Also, as the school has much better results than the one DD has been allocated, I would assume that being academic is more acceptable than it would be in a school where only 50% of children get 5 A-C GCSEs.

Be that as it may, my question really is not do quirky children do better in bigger schools: it's do I have any realistic grounds for appeal?

I don't think you do have good grounds from what you've said, sorry. You need to be able to prove that the smaller school is the only one that can meet your DD's needs. Being a little bit brighter than others and a bit quirky won't be good enough grounds.

You need to be able to prove that the smaller school is the only one that can meet your DD's needs

No you don't. You only have to show that your daughter will be disadvantaged if she goes to the allocated school rather than the appeal school.

If you want to appeal you should go ahead. You won't lose anything by appealing and you might get a place.

Your point about teasing is a little weak as it stands. It is a form of bullying. All schools should be able to deal with it. I therefore doubt this one will fly unless you can get an independent expert to write a letter stating that your daughter needs to go to the appeal school (or a school like it) due to her sensitivity, etc.

Your second point is potentially stronger. You need to identify things that the appeal school offers that are not available at the allocated school. If, for example, they offer extracurricular activities in maths and English that would be worth bringing up.

Distance is irrelevant at appeal unless you have missed out on a place due to the distance being measured incorrectly. That does not appear to be the case here.

This isn't a hugely strong appeal case but that might not matter. Sometimes the school's case to refuse admission is so weak that almost any appeal will succeed.

I agree with PRH and tiggytape. I would also be very cautious about talking about the level your daughter is working at in English. It is not appropriate for the teacher to be talking about level 7, as that is not possible at KS2 and only a minority of pupils take the level 6 paper and get it in writing and reading.
By all means talk about the fact that the preferred school is good at english and maths but actually all panels will assume that any secondary school will be able to teach those subjects to a high level. That is what is expected. I would look carefully at what other subjects the school can offer which the allocated school does not offer. It does not need to be something that your daughter is madly in love with but something that you can say your daughter would find of interest. If it is rural does it do anything to do with animals or the environment?
What is important at the appeal is that you bring out the fact that the LA got it wrong and had to redo the distances, that you have now missed out apparently by an even shorter distance but actually you are still not sure that they have got it right. Ask the presenting officer to prove that they have got it right this time as they do not seem to have done a particularly good job the first time around. The panel will undoubtedly be interested in establishing that the LA have got it right and anything that casts further doubt improves your case, because you are reducing the level of prejudice that you have to overcome.

I would appeal. If at stage 1 of the appeal it is established that the school can go over PAN there is a tiny chance that they would then make those extra places available to all the spells te!

But hopefully you also stand a good chance on the waiting lists.

Thanks for all the advice. Seems like our chances are slim but nothing ventured, nothing gained. One further question: how do you find out whether the school ever goes over its published admission number? Would they tell you this? I would think they'd want to keep it quiet if they do because it strengthens appeal cases and means they might be forced to take extra children again. How do I find out?

is there any other way to find out the number of pupils in each year without asking as part of an appeal process?