Apply now from overseas or later from within catchment area?!

[Miljimaseyo]

We are unexpectedly (but happily!) returning to the UK in the Summer following a three year stint in Asia. Having only recently discovered that we'll be coming home I've missed the application deadline for schools for my DCs who'll be going into years 4 and 8 respectively in September.

LA have advised me to apply for places now, however if I do this my application will obviously be classed as "out of area" and therefore, I assume, pretty much bottom of the pile. Apparently this will also mean they won't be able to tell me where they're able to offer a place until some time during the Summer break!

Can any wise MNers with admissions experience tell me whether it would be likely to make any difference to the allocation of places if we were to return to the UK and apply from (hopefully) somewhere within catchment area given that many decent schools will already be fully subscribed? I could conceivably pull the kids out of school here early, but this seems unnecessarily disruptive if it's unlikely to have any real effect on their ultimate offer of places.

Lastly, if I contact schools directly are they likely to be willing to tell me whether they currently have places available? I totally appreciate that this will be subject to change, but at the moment our only location proviso is that we need to be within commutable distance of Swindon so it would be good to narrow our search down to areas where it's at least vaguely feasible that they might get in somewhere half decent.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated, bit of a logistical nightmare this relocation from afar malarkey!!

The application deadlines only really apply if your children will be starting reception or Y7 in September. For other age groups it's called in-year admission and you need to be available to take up any places quickly. You can express preference for 3 schools (usually), but realistically you will need to find out which schools have places available in the relevant year groups as in some areas most schools will be full.

Thanks both of you, that makes it all a lot clearer - I'll contact some schools directly and keep my fingers crossed!

Work on the assumption that you won't actually know which schools they will be attending until a couple of weeks into the new term. You may end up pleasantly surprised, but a good motto is "hope for the best, but plan for the worst". The chances are that a few schools won't realise they have a place free until this point. Families may have moved, or decided that little Freddie isn't thriving at a state school and decided to go private, and if they forget to tell the school (or deliberately choose not to in case of a last minute change of plan) they find out after registering absences for 2 weeks. So even if you are offered a place somewhere before the start of term, if it's unsatisfactory you may be able to hold out for a better offer after term starts. Universities don't restart till October - could you advertise for a uni student to act as a temporary home tutor for them both for September so that you don't have to rush this?

You'll have to choose a house without any knowledge of where the eventual school places will be, so choose somewhere with excellent public transport links as it is likely that your child in year 8 will be making their own way to a senior school while you get the younger to a different one in the opposite direction.

Sorry to jump in, only in a simular situation. How are your kids with the move.., as in friends etc?

Thanks Fish, that's really helpful, and you're right, that is a good motto, I'm trying to be a bit more philosophical after my initial panic! Could you just clarify, if they get offered places that I'm not happy with I take it that I still need to accept those? And join a waiting list for my preferred school in the hope that something might come up after the start of term?

Momtothree my eldest has been counting the days until we come home ever since we got here, she's been (fairly determined to be!) miserable here and seems to see a return to the UK as something of a panacea, as much as I hope that this will indeed be the case, frankly I have my doubts - 12 year old girls being vile to one another certainly isn't specific to where we are imho!! But to be fair I don't think the ethos of her current school has been a good fit for her - hoping there won't be quite so many tiger mums in the South West

On the other hand my youngest is gutted to be leaving, he sees where we are as "home", loves (the same) school and has forged some really strong bonds. He's pretty gregarious so I'm confident he'll settle back in but that doesn't make leaving any less distressing for him. I guess you can't please all of the people all of the time... All the best with your move, hope it goes smoothly!

The one thing in your post that confuses me is the LA advising you to apply now. Two things occur to me: are you in Asia on some kind of "Crown" role? If so there are special provisions, which mean that you can apply from overseas and the LA can force a school to keep open and give you a place.
If not I wonder if the person you spoke to at the LA is "confused".

However the general advice is good to apply now, especially if it possible for you to take up the places fairly quickly. Even if you are "out of area now" if a place comes up and there is not a waiting list, then you will have to be offered the place. You can also change your address etc when you return.

My LA though does not accept applications until you are resident.

Is your daughter hoping to re-connect with old friends? If so do drop subtle hints that this doesn't always happen. Maybe watch mean girls, and discuss friendship issues. But it could be an improvement as some International expat schools can have a very different atmosphere.

Thanks mummytime - dh isn't in a crown role, but that particular LA (Wiltshire) did advise me to apply from here so I guess there's no harm in seeing how it goes and I would imagine the sooner I do so the better so at least I won't be competing for places with families moving during the UK Summer holidays.

We still have a house in the UK and have been home once or twice a year so dd has kept in contact with several of her old friends. Up until very recently we had assumed that when we returned for good we'd be going back to the same house, but now it transpires we need to move county and in some ways I think this might be a positive thing for all of us. I've talked lots to dd about people / friendships changing (and am currently reading Queen Bees and Wannabees!) and there's certainly an element here of the typical tween girl dynamic going on but I think she's struggled more with the rigidity and pressure to conform at school than anything else, apparently she has felt "like a misfit"

That sounds pretty normal for teenage girls.

Hopefully you will find the right (and probably big enough) school and she will find people she fits in with. My eldest DD believes she didn't learn anything until year 10, and found her own group to fit into about then too.

Hi Miljimaseyo, we're in a similar position, though are applying for Yr7 and Yr 5 when we move back to UK later this year. I'd recommend keeping a log of all phone calls and saving all emails you receive from the LA and the schools you're contacting, as IME there is very little continuity or communication between them, and this has caused issues for us. We applied for a place last year, as advised by our LA and the academies in question, and were then told by one of the academies (the over-subscribed first preference) that we couldn't apply - so in our case, the pages of emails and phone call logs came in very handy, to prove what we had been advised in the past. We're now at the appeal stage. Hope it all works out for you, and your DCs.

Thank you itsveryyou, I will certainly bear that in mind, I'm slightly bemused that different LAs have different application criteria so already experiencing the lack of continuity - I suppose it would help if we at least knew where we wanted to go, but I've absolutely no experience of the area in question and am wary that somewhere that looks good on paper might not "feel" right iyswim, so reluctant to commit to a particular area from so far away...

Good luck with your appeal!

Hi schools will have diff critera based on local knowledge ie more local kids will make the critera stricter- im sure most schools have FB pages - its a start! You could be cheeky and message a few mums on there - Also u can visit once here may find a holiday cottage/caravan before renting/buying so u can visit? A few days off school wont harm. I should imagine u will need to wait for furniture to arrive. You are right a visit will give u a better idea of the school.

It's different because no LEA has to accept applications until you have actually moved into your new address (other than qualifying military/Crown servants).

Some will go beyond that, as they actually want to be as helpful as they can be, so will set their own policy for advance applications.

It would be less confusing if no Admissions Authority accepted an application for a child not resident in UK (and that was how it used to be) but I'm not sure that's the outcome you'd want.

I don't know anything about moving LA whether from UK or abroad, but following this thread and putting myself in your place, I would start with a LOT of research into schools around your target work area first.
Do a wide search to find suitable schools. Don't just look at OFSTED reports but look at the catchment area, are these the kind of people you can live with. IMHO the more mixed an area the better IYSWIM.
One way to do this is to find local estate agencies (Rightmove.com) and check whether you can find a suitable home near the school/s of choice and with good transport links for work. If money is not a problem, look to rent a property (studio flat?) for six months to get an address in that catchment area. You may already be planning to rent a house anyway while you sell yours so that if you have made a mistake you can easily move. Why not do that now so you have a place to visit and do on the ground research from.

Apply now and update your address as soon as you are in the UK

Thanks a million to everyone who's taken the time to reply, I really do appreciate it - whilst it mightn't be foolproof I feel like my plan of attack is at least a lot more focused now!