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Original poster

Team Maths Challenge

36 replies

BlueBelle003 · 24/03/2015 22:10

My DS came home yesterday not happy as he found out a boy in his maths class had been chosen for the team maths challenge. Only two children were chosen in his year one from each of the two top sets. Now the reason DS who is in Y8 is not happy is that he has consistently come top in all the end of term maths tests and when he did the junior maths challenge in Y7 he was awarded a gold and top in year. My dilemma is we have parents evening this week do I mention it and will it just sound like sour grapes.

OP posts:
PiqueABoo · 24/03/2015 22:19

Perhaps they think it's someone else's turn to (try to) shine?

Original poster
BlueBelle003 · 24/03/2015 22:24

No he wasn't chosen for the other maths challenge they had earlier in the year, my concern is I know DS wants to do maths at Uni and wouldn't it be helpful for him to put on his personal statement or am I mis-guided in thinking this?

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MsDragons · 24/03/2015 22:26

It may be that he isn't a good match with the other people in the team. It may be that he is very good but not quick (my dd's problem), speed is a big part of the team competition. It may be that there are a few pupils who are all in a cluster at the top and they want to spread out the chances to shine.

There are any number of reasons why I would choose somebody for the team challenge over the person who scores top in tests. In fact, the 4 pupils from my school who were chosen are in the top 10 in the yeargroup but not the very top, because the very top pupils are just too quiet and shy, so would not do well in the team competition (they also didn't want to be in the team)

It won't hurt to ask reasons at parents evening, but try to make sure you ask how he could improve his chances for next year, rather than demand why he wasn't chosen.

Kuppenbender · 24/03/2015 22:27

I don't see any harm in asking for clarification. How else would your son know what he has to do to be chosen next time. It all depends on how you phrase your enquiry as to whether it comes across as sour grapes. I would assume that it was simply a case of the school giving some others the chance to take part. I don't see anything wrong with that.

MsDragons · 24/03/2015 22:27

It definitely won't harm his chances of doing Maths at uni.

Original poster
BlueBelle003 · 24/03/2015 22:34

My DS is actually pretty confident has no problem standing up in front of his peers and talking he is also very sociable I don't think that is the problem. He has said previously that child chosen is teacher's favourite, and I know my DS does ask a lot of questions so can be quite a challenge at times!

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noblegiraffe · 24/03/2015 22:40

The teacher he has this year possibly has no idea that your DS came top in the maths challenge last year and simply picked the other boy because he thought he'd enjoy it and do well with the style of questions.

OneMagnumisneverenough · 24/03/2015 22:50

In my sons' school, it's names out a hat from all those capable for the Maths challenge as they don't have space for them all to do it - they possibly do the same for the team challenge?

My eldest got a Gold award the first year he did it and his name hasn't come out the hat for the next two years. Younger son is top at Maths but his name hasn't ever been picked out.

Clobbered · 24/03/2015 22:56

Maybe the teacher felt that another child would benefit more from the opportunity, for whatever reason. You're right, it will sound like sour grapes if you mention it at parents' evening, so just don't.
Maybe the teacher fancied an easy day out with a kid who wouldn't keep pushing with lots of 'challenging' questions?
Universities really won't give a damn about whether or not he did a maths challenge in year 8.

startwig1982 · 24/03/2015 22:57

I organise the team at my school and I invite the best mathematicians to a sample session and then pick. Often it's not the very best academically as they sometimes find it hard to work in a team/express their thoughts with their teammates.
As for university, I wouldn't worry at this stage!

PiqueABoo · 24/03/2015 23:24

"the very top pupils are just too quiet and shy, so would not do well in the team competition"

If they didn't want to then fair enough. Otherwise be careful because given an opportunity, superficially quiet and shy Y7 DD has prompted a few teachers to pick their jaws up off the floor then revise their personality models. She's a credible contender for this in Y8 and will likely bite your hand off to do it, but I'll probably be back next year complaining that they picked some lesser louder child. I hope her school does do a sample session because that sounds reasonable.

Incidentally since it's mentioned, can anyone give me the stock explanation for two top sets i.e. why have two top sets with a wider ability range?

We have that here and I was musing that it would be better to pick a couple of children from one of the top-sets where they're long used to working/racing together, then pick a couple from the other top set next year.

noblegiraffe · 24/03/2015 23:30

Two top sets because the year is split into two halves who have maths at different times in order to fit the timetable. If only half of y8 are having maths at one time, then that frees up teachers to teach a particular option block of sixth form, for example.

AtiaoftheJulii · 25/03/2015 06:04

Going a bit tangential to say that's a terribly sad excuse by OneMagnum's school! They must have enough room for everyone to do e.g. maths GCSE, so why isn't there room for the JMC/etc?

OneMagnumisneverenough · 25/03/2015 06:41

The junior competition is always on when they have Prelims on which use all the bigger spaces available so usually they only have a classroom or two with appropriate supervision available. It is sad. The school is very academic so out of 6 classes in my elder son's year, at least 4 of them are capable of doing well in the challenge. If they can only fit 30 in then that's a lot of disappointed students. I suppose the randomness of it is probably the fairest.

Original poster
BlueBelle003 · 25/03/2015 07:39

Thank you for all your great replies it has given me food for thought, I do think the fairest way is how Startwig picks pupils. For context he's at a state comp and unfortunately there aren't swathes of children to choose from - I wish there were as I personally do not think it does him any good always being the one who comes top in maths!

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OneMagnumisneverenough · 25/03/2015 07:45

My children are at a state comp too (Scotland). The maths challenge doesn't seem to be that challenging. Having said that,the school has a pupil who scored 100% in an exam (the only one in the country to do so) which he sat 2 years early. Now that's being top amongst your peers.

Original poster
BlueBelle003 · 25/03/2015 07:59

OneMag. I think you may have misunderstood me, I don't think my child is a maths genius and if he were at a superselective he would probably be considered average, its just the school he happens to be at that is not the case, as I said before unfortunately, but there is nothing I can do about the intake!

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OneMagnumisneverenough · 25/03/2015 08:09

Sorry, didn't it mean it that way, it sounds like he is far from average, we are just suffering from the opposite issue. Neither is great tbh. He is probably about the same or brighter than my boys but mine would have no chance of getting on the team by academic selection so randomly being picked from a hat would be their only chance.

Original poster
BlueBelle003 · 25/03/2015 08:19

No problem OneMag, that's the problem with reading something you can't be sure how it was meant and I do have the habit of misinterpreting things!!! Hence this thread I now think I've blown the whole thing out of proportion and at parent's evening I shall be concentrating on what really matters - like the fact he's bored in class, but that's a whole bag of worms I shalln't be inflicting on you all!!!!

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kwerty · 25/03/2015 09:10

Maths Challenge can be done in a normal classroom as long as the pupils can be spaced out a bit; one person supervises the room and makes a seating plan. It doesn't need a specialist invigilator, just someone keeping an eye out for cheating, as you would during a class test.
Blue, I doubt if your son was left out to give a teacher an easy day without his questions; the teachers spend most of the time with teams from other schools.
Hope he gets a chance next time, it's a great day.

PiqueABoo · 25/03/2015 09:30

Well on the bright side your DS got to do individual in Y7. Although the maths dept. talk about UKMT on our state comp school website there's no sign of it happening for DD's current Y7. I think these little peripheral things matter, so I might try twisting the HoD's arm for future Y7s.

I also couldn't guess who is 'top' in her top-set because of assessment ceilings e.g. the recent serious one for this term covered L5 - L7 and the three whizzy children either got the maximum score or some random glitch put them just below.

OneMagnumisneverenough · 25/03/2015 09:55

We have a bit of an issue in our school about them never getting time away from lessons for anything. Other local schools do an activity week, they don't, other schools have charity dress down, they don't. They have lost their home-ec teacher so now get an extra period of Maths, an Art teacher is leaving so they think they are getting extra science. Getting decent exam results seem to be the main focus.

I honestly thought they needed an extra invigilator and therefore could only get one or two so thanks for the info on that.

Increasingly the classes sometimes seem to have no teacher at all - there have been 3 occasions - (2 for one son and 1 for the other) - over the last couple of weeks that they have had no teacher in class that my children have made me aware off - they weren't complaining btw, in DS1s case it was becasue I asked what they had first thing on Friday to see if they would get out for the Eclipse. He said he had English and would be watching a video as they had no teacher. DS2 told me because his class got in trouble for having a carry on.

DeeWe · 25/03/2015 12:32

I amagine the 2 top sets are because the year is split in 2 halves for ease of timetabling-dd1's school is the same in years 7-8. Or it could be a boy/girl divide, which is what they've tried in year 9 (not been a success in case you're interested, and they're changing it back next year)

DD1 is top at maths and has done several of the maths team challenges. I can think of several reasons why they might not have chosen him.

  1. They wanted 1 boy/1 girl, and the other boy is better. DD1 certainly gains from being a girl who is good at maths when it comes to being picked for such things.
  1. He may be best on what he has done, but may not be so good at working out how to do something he hasn't been told how to do. My dsis could get 100% on any maths she had been told how to do, but wouldn't have a clue if she hadn't been told. I could take a question and work out from first principals how to do it. Dsis found this both irritating (I was 3 years younger) and helpful (when she needed me to explain her homework)
  1. They may know that he doesn't compliment the other mathematician as well. Dd1's group that does the team maths challenge, she and another lad work very well together. They have to have a third though, and there are a couple that work very well with them, and there's another who really doesn't work well with them although he's as able, he's not as good a team player. And there's another lad who is very capable but very similar to another one and not quite as good. So having him on the team adds less.
  1. The maths challenge and the team maths challenge are different. One who does well in one doesn't necessarily do well in the other. Certainly that's true of dd1's year-and I remember it being true when I was at school too.
  1. It's possible they asked who could/wanted to do it. That happened with dd1's group. One lad's mum asked why he wasn't chosen and was told (in front of child) that he'd replied to being asked something slightly less polite than "I wouldn't do it if you paid me". Grin However his dm had thought he was disappointed not to be picked.
Original poster
BlueBelle003 · 25/03/2015 15:49

Just to clear up the mystery concerning 2 top sets, its a large comp and year group is split in to two bands as only way they can run the timetable as noblegiraffe said.

In answer to some of the points some of you have made:
hes mental maths is excellent always top in that test too!!
he is also very good at applying what he knows to new things - hence why I think there is tension with his teacher he has a habit of doing this in class working out immediately what the teacher wanted to get to at the end of the lesson!!! Also why I think he tends to ignore DS even when he is the only one with his hand up.
He also has no problem working with others at primary he quite often was asked to help those that were struggling with their maths.
Finally it was actually DS that wants me to ask the teacher at parents evening why he wasn't chosen!

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Original poster
BlueBelle003 · 25/03/2015 16:36

An up date on the Team Maths challenge it was today and the child in my DS class that was chosen did'nt go, appears he didn't fancy it!!!!!! That's kids for you!

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