Got offers for Alleyn's and Greycoat

[Luna9]

Hi. My niece has got offers from Alleyn's and the Greycot. She is not sure of which one to choose; Alleyn's is within walking distance and Greycoat is one bus drive, 45 min each way. My niece has an attitute to languages and got offered a language place at the Greycoat; she is also very artistic and enjoys sports; they can afford the fees at Alleyn's. They are both very good school but also very different. They are middle class but no wealthy. She has accepted both as she is not sure yet. Can people with children at both school give us advise; what are they like socially, academically, which one offer the best opportunity academically. Thank you.

Ah thanks!

I have done a similar commute from SE London to Westminster and wouldn't want my DC travelling that much each day, eats up too much time and is tiring. But £100k+ is a lot of money to spend/save.

Alleyns is a great school. We were waitlisted there. Had we had a firm offer we very well might have taken it over GC, because it was co-ed. Walking will be a real plus for her.

I know of other girls who got in from the East Dulwich and Brixton areas. who got in on church places. It just depends on the year. They do still have a ranking system. The criteria is broken down more than at St. Marylebone and Lady M. It will also depend on sibling places year to year. Because it is in Westminster and is a C of E school it does branch out in all directions and distance does come into place with the church places. If you meet the criteria it is certainly worth putting it on your list even if you live across the river. It will also depend on the band your child test into. They will have more applicants in the middle band, so you can have a child in the top band get in who is farther away than a child in the middle band who lives closer. Make Sense???

It depends what you want academically. If she wants to go to university, then the final grades and student destinations are far superior at Alleyn's.
As you might expect from a top London day school, 16 to Oxbridge, 13 to Edinburgh, 11 to Leeds, last year etc. Most to top RG Unis. GC has stopped printing its final destinations. Ten are listed, all RG, but no details of numbers, or how many to competitive courses. Makes you think there's something to hide!
As GC is a comp, there'll be lots of access/outreach courses to tertiary ed, Summer schools, at top unis for bright pupils. However, these are sometimes limited to FSM pupils.
People speak v.highly of new head at GC. There's a big clamp down on discipline with teachers following pupils to venues outside of school to check on behaviour. Poor teachers! (Historically, problems with Facebook bullying.) Pupils are forbidden to go to the shops during lunch and this might not suit a child who is used to being trusted. Also, as another poster said, a strong conservative/evangelical contingent from Southwark diocese.

definitely Alleyn's if fees are not an issue

There were a few children from dc's school who started at the same time but they've all made new friends including lots from the junior school

The biggest 'feeder' this year apart from the prep was actually Honeywell in Wandsworth - they will all be going to school together on the same coach as well so it may be a bit harder for them to break out but on the whole I'd say the school mixes them up well

As we don't start until September I don't know if all mrdashwood is saying is true. It was a a concern of ours. But, we revisited the school on a non-visit day and were able to ask very specific questions regarding the discipline policy. If your child is well behaved already there won't be a problem. We also spoke to several girls we know who go there and it is scarier than it actually is. I welcome it as my DD is very well behaved and is constantly annoyed by behaviour at her current school. GC does send girls to Oxford and Cambridge as well as RG. The % will of course be less as it a isn't selective school, it is a comp. Alleyns is a top private school and they get very good students from the beginning. Don't forget kids often change schools for A level. So if you are looking for year 7, concentrate on GCSE with A level only in the back of your mind. If a school has good teachers and your child is in a loving environment at home they will thrive anywhere.

They changed the faith criteria this year. Straight attendance (no more points for activities) by feeder school/distance.

I don't know the distance for siblings, but the furthest a non-sibling lives is about 0.5 miles (regardless of band) in first round offers this year.

Howcanitbe you made me really laugh. I've only joined this whole Mumsnet thing this winter because of my own school dilemmas, but I find myself lurking in places that have no relevance to my situation when I really should be doing something more useful with my time. The girls I know in East Dulwich and Brixton are not siblings. They are the eldest like my DD. One in my area is a sibling. Marylebone was 3 years church attendance and the form is simpler, but they give out many more specialist places for the arts. LM I can't remember, but I do know it was only fortnightly. We don't make it every week and I'm not an officer, but I have run activities at the church and I do help out. There are definitely people who would rank higher than me on the points system. I think for Luna, Alleyns is a terrific option if fees don't matter. Being able to walk to school is a gift in London. We have 2 more kids to go so for us fees make a difference. Also our choice was JAGS vs GC, which on paper are very similar, minus the selective vs comp aspect. I would add, Luna, that Alleyns won't necessarily be local for all the pupils. People do travel to get to that school so local friends will just depend on the year I think.

I'm a bit like Howcanitbe. GC is our nearest school by far, yet completely inaccessible. Instead DD was offered a failing school she had not applied to, three buses away. They would not even let us look round until the induction day in the summer. Instead we paid, only for me to be critised by a colleague who lived in Kent and who did not "believe" in private education. The colleague did not believe that we had not got a place. Lots of her friends' daughters went to GC. All you had to do was "tick the boxes". In the end I wonder if the school/Council realised that very strict criteria was leading to a pupil body that favoured those belonging to active evangelical churches or those who had "played the game" with few places for local children, even those who were church goers and who had attended local CofE Primaries.

I assume local concern will have increased given the decision that the new Free School in Waterloo just on the other side of the river from GC would be run by the Oasis Schools Trust, who appear to led by an evangelical Christian movement (Elim Pentacostal Church?) . The area desperately needs school places, DS was not offered anything at all. But it was beginning to look as if local education was limited to those who had God on their side. I therefore welcome the change in the GC criteria.

And to reassure OP. I understand that the top set is quite different. Teaching is strong, and the sixth form, when the same religious requirements aren't imposed, and when they take in boys, is even stronger. The school is genuinely comprehensive and I had heard they were tough on discipline. I suspect it is needed. Certainly a couple of years ago I witnessed quite a scrap at Victoria station including Greycoat girls and Westminster City boys. My guess is that if they have more local children feeding through several good local church primaries the school will remain diverse and comprehensive, but hopefully the need for obvious discipline might be reduced.

Mumof3, are the girls you know starting in Year 7 or are they already in the school. I think the point is that criteria have only just changed. The catchment going forward should be more local.

I can't comment, children should go where they feel happier. I do have to defend the commute though. I commuted my whole secondary school life to GCH, at one point we lived in Forest Hill. It was one of the best experiences I had and made me street smart and a big adventurer. It's a shame that London catchments no longer give London children that experience.

Really? DD commuted. About 40 minutes each way. Crowded trains. No local friends. Me having to pick her up after play rehersals etc, when she had to go straight onto her moch loved extracurricular activity or when she had too much kit (if you commute don't do art!). London children tend to be more streetwise anyway. I don't think an argument that a commute is a good thing is sufficient for supporting demanding admissions requirements and forcing loads of kids to schlepp across London in rush hour.

Lots of DC commute across London to Greycoats and other schools. In fact, it doesn't take them any longer to go 4+ miles into/across town than it takes my DD to go by bus to her local school which is under 3 miles away.

Back in the 90's lots of kids 'schelpped' across London for school and to each other's houses from Peckham to Hammersmith. It was all ILEA, so no catchments. We were free and happy and no one had local friends or considered asking parents to pick them up and ferry them around. That's just was how things were. I'm just saying for me and everyone I know it was a good experience. A lot of modern London kids are far more sheltered. Ironic given that London is far safer now.

Lots of Greycoats/Oratory/other children still schlep miles across London to see friends tomandizzy. And enjoy doing it

Needmoresleep. I'm sorry to hear of your experience with the Secondary process. Perhaps there should be another thread about how London needs more outstanding state secondary schools and how that can be achieved. The girls I know are starting next September in year 7. Did you go for Pimlico. I hear very good things about that school. We would not have met the requirements. Just slightly too far in the catchment.

It isn't easy to 'play the game' so to speak on a church place. I think vicars can see through that and in the end we don't see what they say about us on the application. It is sent separately by the vicar. Personally, I think state schools should be for everyone, but the current system is not set up that way with specialist places/church places, founders places, etc. This is indicative of a wider problem. I would have loved to have sent my DD to our local Secondary. I visited it several times and was increasingly disappointed with each visit by a number of things. So, I took my chances on schools that we met the admissions requirements for even if they were further afield. In the end we didn't even put it on our list of 6.

I agree that commuting can be a positive depending on the logistics of the individual commute. That is a wonderful thing about growing up in London. Kids can access so much via public transport and it makes them grow up in a positive way before Uni.

We are beyond this. DD is now in sixth form. However in stark contrast to others, she really did not enjoy rush hour commuting, seeing it as 7.5 hours lost from each week, plus the fun and games during strikes etc.

From what you are saying the new criteria has not made much difference. GC kids will still come in from far and wide. The only positive is that Pimlico is much improved and now seen as a viable option for those local children who do not see long journeys as a positive.

Needmoresleep, if you'd asked me at 15 when my art coursework had just escaped from massive plastic folder and scattered all over Victoria Station I would have had a different reply. It's something that many years from now, hopefully she'll see the positive side of.

Pimlico is now a local school if you knew Pimlico back in the late 80's and 90's you'll know how sadly depressing that is. It had local and non-local students in equal numbers and was a truely mixed and dynamic school. I doubt it is that now, even if a lot of the original teachers are still growing old and going strong.

DD used to have "five bag" days. I used to have to meet her at Victoria as she could not get through the barrier. Honestly think twice about taking art, music, sport or drama if you are a commuter - and certainly not more than one of these.

I disagree though about Pimlico. It went through a very troubled spell. Enough that when my children were in nursery I used to avoid the end of the school day as pavement were crammed with big, slightly threatening, gangs of kids making passing difficult. There is now a real feel of purposefulness, and parents I know are happy, indeed sometimes preferring it to GC.

The trouble is that your and Tilly's desire to see kids from all over London access these central London schools implies you are equally happy that children local to these schools should commute long distances to unpopular, often failing, schools as these are often the only schools with places. (With DS we got a call in May saying Lambeth might have found a place at a school in Camden, and we know that several children from our local primary were still without a place at the end of the summer term.) Presumably Gods punishment for the fact their parents were not willing to spend long hours in church.

We ended up paying which was a real stuggle. Though looking back it was probably better though than the all night-prayer sessions which would have guaranteed my colleague's child a place, even though it came without any moral highground.

A pity though. I liked the idea of GC becoming more accessible, and think it might be good for the school.

I didn't say I desired for them to travel across London, just that many do do it happily.