Appeal process help please

[appeallingme]

Hi there,

My oldest has been allocated third choice - I'm going to appeal but can't seem to get the order of finding out the information clear in my mind.

I've read loads of great stuff here about asking for PAN info etc and last distance admitted as this is relevant to why we didn't get in - do I do this first so I can include it in my appeal submission or is it done after I get the case before the appeal?

Concerned there wont be time to get everything I need then but conversely, not sure exactly what I need to counter their case at this point!

Thanks

Thanks tiggytape - I clicked on the online appeal button and it looked as if you needed to submit all you reasons and evidence there and then so was unsure whether to wait.

If as I understand, we get the case against admission 10 days in advance - do I then need to answer this and submit that reply or just answer it on the day?

If distance is one of the issues, should I be able to find out the last distance admitted? Initial enquiry just got 'you were close' but no actual figure!

I'm also a bit concerned about the sort of evidence I need - our primary are notoriously unhelpful so not sure anyone will write in support of my son. If I find a report backing up one of my claims, do I just copy the page or send the whole thing? Worried about overwhelming the panel with too much paperwork but want to be thorough.

You do need to have written and submitted your appeal and then main reasons for the appeal before the appeal date. In fact at the same time as you get the appeal document information of the school and why they do not believe they should admit, they will get your information. It is not unusual for appellants to also submit extra info up to the date of the appeal but it is actually up to the panel as to whether any info can be accepted on the day of the appeal. Sometimes for instant the appellant at the appeal suddenly realises that there is something that has not happened or missed and usually the panel do allow that to be heard.
You do not therefore need to submit anything else when you get the papers 10 days beforehand. Just read them very carefully and look for errors, omissions or anything else that you can weaken the schools case over.
You should be able to get the information about the distances involved well before the case but they will be in the school's case as they will have to explain what distance they have admitted to and how far you are away from that.
Any information from your primary school will have little value at the appeal. In fact officially heads of primary schools are not supposed to be involved in supporting any appeal as it could compromise the LAs case not to admit. There is however nothing to stop you submitting something from the primary if it supports your case but 25 metre swimming certificates etc are not encouraged. One thing that really gets up the panel's nose is submitting a photo of your child - just so we know who they are. That goes down badly as emotional blackmail.

Apologies for hijacking your thread OP. What are the opinions of the experts here of appealing when no one has won an appeal with the school in the past? Is it worth giving it a go, or complete waste of time?

Thanks for everyone's help and happy to share the thread as interested to hear the answer!

Am I damaging my case by asking the admissions officer at the school for info now rather than waiting? Not sure if this gives them more time to prepare their case against but would like to get capacity figures etc.

For example the PAN was higher last year due to planned extension they said at open evening but this has not happened so it's lower this year. I'm pretty sure we would have got in last year so can I question this and show they can take more pupils?

PingusLastStand - There is no way of telling. An appeal is effectively a one way bet. If you lose you are in exactly the same position as you are today. If you win your child gets a place.

appeallingme - No you are not damaging your case by asking for information now. The case to refuse will almost certainly be a generic case rather than trying to respond specifically to points you raise. Whether or not your child would have got a place last year is irrelevant. If you can show that they can take more pupils that will help but if the extension hasn't happened it isn't clear how you will achieve this.

I would say an appeal is always worth it, especially at secondary level (primary infant class size cases are a different situation).
If the school has not admitted any over PAN for a long time but it is full, then there are two possible reasons. Firstly the school has a PAN that is already well above what it should be taking or another reason which means the bar for entry is very high in deed. The second answer, which I would probably favour, is that in my opinion there is frequently a deserving cause to admit if the panel is truely independent of the school. If the school is their own admission authority then I suspect they find their own panel and that they are no longer independent of the school as they have been doing appeals for the school for too long.
If you think this is possible, then it might be interesting to ask the clerk to the panel, when did the panel last undergo training for school admissions and how many times have they sat as a panel for this school. Not sure what response you might get!

Thanks prh47bridge-good to get an objective persective as hard not to feel upset about it at the moment.

I suppose I thought it showed that they could accomodate more in a yeargroup than they admit - would this not help? Given they took this number according to them in anticipation of the potential extra building when in reality they'd already been refused permission for it so knew it was unlikely to happen for a few years at earliest, would that help?

In terms of the variable PAN, this should not have happened. Not sure from your post whether there was an intention to build an extension, which did not happen or whether the school has the space but the expansion was just an increase in the PAN.
In the former case the rules would say you do not count the extension as part of the building until it is built but there has to be some realism as the PAN has to be considered well in advance of the building being built.
In the latter case, this considerably strengthens your case as they are in effect admitting that there are extra rooms in the school that are not being used.

Thanks admission. The school planned to build another building to extend capacity but didn't get permission for various reasons. At open evening they said last year's PAN had been higher due to the planned bulilding which they'd anticipated would be ready for sep 15 or 16 I think. This didn't happen but I now think they knew this a long time ago so not sure why they admitted the higher number?

It is worth exploring but it may not lead you anywhere. If they didn't know the new building wasn't going to happen until after they'd set the higher PAN, for example, that wouldn't really help you. Remember that PAN for last year would have been set in early 2013. However, if they knew they weren't going to get the extension before PAN was set that could lead to an interesting discussion.

Thanks will investigate further. Where do I find info on when PANs are set and phr47bridge mentions the rules don't let you alter the PAN for proposed buildings - which rules would these be? I have looked but not sure where to find this.

Thanks for such great advice, very useful.

I think you have slightly misunderstood me. PAN is set along with the rest of the admission arrangements which would have been finalised by 15th April 2013. Once PAN is set they can increase PAN easily but any decrease must go through an approvals process. It is therefore quite difficult to reduce PAN. For that reason they should not have increased PAN without knowing whether or not the extension was going to be approved unless there was enough capacity in the school already to allow one larger year.

Thanks for the advice prh47bridge and admission. We will appeal, but won't hold our breath!

Good luck with your appeal OP.