GCSE Choice: Religious Studies or Geography

[chancer2014]

Dd is equally good at both though I guess Geography might have a slight edge in terms of grades. Are there any advantages in choosing one over the other? And does it really matter at this stage or should she just do what she enjoys more?

There are loads of courses at RG universities that go into clearing! Just very few from the top RG universities and not so many at Bath and Exeter.

RS is not on the list of facilitating subjects in 'informed choices' the document issued to students choosing A Levels and produced by the RG. can't link to it, but look it up online.
The fact that RS is moving to the new specifications for A Level later will not make it a facilitating subject. Bt he definition of one is a subject which is SPECIFICALLY a course requirement by a number of RG universities for certain courses. The reason they are called facilitating is because they keep doors to more universities and courses open. RS is not a facilitating subject because it is not specifically required to take a theology degree. Maths is a facilitating subject because it is a requirement to do a number of subjects such as Maths, Economics etc......in fact Economics is not a facilitating subject because it is not a requirement to do Economics degree, whereas Maths is.
Informed Choices also lists each degree subject and the A Level subjects which would be most useful for it/most highly regarded for that course by RG universities - worth looking at.

Of course most children won't go to RG universities and we are only talking bout GCSE not A Level choices. For the vast majority, either option will be absolutely fine. For those whose children might consider RG universities, the facilitating issue is just one thing to consider, along with all the usual ones of which subject they enjoy, are good at etc. Again there is no right answer.

One of the reasons why children in private schools get a disproportionate amount of places at RG universities compared to children of equal intelligence and grades in state schools, is that they receive great advice about subject choice at GCSE and A Level. Every year it is reported that bright students in some state schools face a restricted choice of degree or access to top universities because they have chosen subjects which mean not all courses are open to them - they were capable of doing the other subjects, but not given enough information to know the implications of their choices.

Thanks for all your responses. This has been really informative. In the end, I had to run with dd's choice of RS although I would have preferred her to do Geography. She's taking History and German too. I have no idea what she'll end up doing at A level. She's really very good across all subjects and the school has a 3 science policy. This discussion has been useful, especially regarding facilitating subjects (I knew very little about this). Thanks again.

ChocolateWombat I can tell you that both Economics and RS or equivalent are extremely popular choices in 'top' private schools (with very high Oxbridge entrance).
That should tell you something of the advice that is being given and that is certainly not to deter pupils from taking these subjects but recognising the interest and relevance of them even in a highly academic education framework (balanced of course with other appropriate core subjects).

Should read be 'Economics and RS A level or equivalent' (in case anybody though I was referring to GCSE.

History and RS are absolutely fine. There is no great need to do Geography instead of RS and it won't hold her back. You only need 2 facilitating subjects at A level. Not all three have to be! It is true that some schools give poor advice regarding combinations of A level subjects, and GCSE subjects, but basically it is not that difficult to choose a broad spread at GCSE and 2 facilitating subjects at A level. Plenty of RG university courses go into clearing so its not always that difficult to get in!

Summer ends - I agree that many students will take Economics and RS from top private schools. They will also take many other academic non-facilitating subjects at A Level too. There is absolutely no problem in this. The recommendation is to ensure at least 2 facilitating subjects to keep as many doors open as possible. There is no need for all 3 or 4 to be facilitating - clearly this would totally cut out many subjects such as RS and Economics which are very valid and highly regarded A Levels.

With the 'facilitating' thing, it is important to know about it, but not to become obsessed with it, nor to decide that all choices must be 'facilitating'. It is simply important to know that not having 2 such subjects at A Level can limit some choices - this is especially important if those choosing A Levels are not certain of their degree or career choice, which is often the case - it is about keeping options open to the most competitive courses. The 3rd or 4th subject might be facilitating or not - many great candidates for the very best places will have 2 facilitating subjects and then something highly regarded but not facilitating such as Economics, Politics, RS.......not usually the 'soft' subjects which are less well regarded and often listed in university prospectus as unacceptable.

Therefore having RS at GCSE or A Level is not a problem - it just needs to be part of a mix which includes facilitating subjects. One thing to consider if starting 4 A Levels and dropping to 3 which most do, is that if you only start with 2 facilitating subjects, you are more restricted in what you can drop as you go down to 3, if you want to still have 2 at full A Level - there is perhaps more flexibility when more initial choices are facilitating.

Why is a thread about GCSEs talking about facilitating subjects?
There is no such thing as a facilitating subject at GCSE.

ChocolateWombat you are quite right. My previous responses were somewhat coloured by the impression that you were saying in your original post that the fact A level RE is not a 'facilitating' subject should be deterrent to choosing it. In fact reading your post and subsequent you were just trying to inform for future choices.

ragged it is just an offshoot arising from debate on the rights and wrongs of RE as a subject choice.

Ragged - the point was simply that choices at GCSE influence choices at A Level. It is true that there are no facilitating GCSEs, but if one lacks many GCSE options which follow onto A Level, there seer less facilitating A Levels available - work backwards.

Incidentally,the OP has recently said her DC has already chosen History and is now considering Geog or RS. History is possibly the most useful facilitating humanity and has already been chosen. Again, hear the point that no-one is saying all GCSEs or A Levels should be facilitating subjects - having some which aren't is fine at both levels.....as long as part of a mix which includes facilitating ones IF a RG Uni which requires such subjects is a possibility. And tho those mentioning other high flying universities which are not RG universities, the same principles of facilitating subjects could be applied there,mor to any other competitive course in a competitive institution - it is a good advice for anyone wanting to take an academic course at any highly regarded university whether you call it a RG institution or not.

chancer2014 - my DD has also chosen RS, which I thought so wouldn't be her. Having said this, she has progressed massively with the subject this year (Year 9) and I think it will give her confidence in putting her own point of view across (as she is very quiet in class). Putting aside any religious aspect to the subject, there is nothing wrong in having to respect and consider other peoples points of view in this world, even if you have your own beliefs as to why things are right.

Extremely unlikely to need same subject GCSE to do A-level history, geography or RS. So 'facilitating' is not a factor for OP's kid's choices of GCSEs. Huge digression.

In my DSs academic private school, it is necessary to do GCSE History or Geography to take them at A Level. I think people maybe free to take up RS - it is called Theology and Philosophy and not quite the same as RS, in my understanding. It is common in state schools too, where increasingly there are higher specific grade requirements in individual subjects to continue to A level in that subject.
It would be extremely unusual to take History at A Level without it at GCSE. If someone wanted to give it up at Yr8/9 options point, they are unlikely to want to start again at a higher level and will have missed out on skills probably more than content. The facilitating subjects thing regarding GCSEs is just one of a range of consideration, but is something that is relevant to know about, it is not a digression, although there has been a lot of talk about it on here to the exclusion of much else lately,perhaps due to misunderstandings people have. The document 'informed Choices' which is about A level choices rather than GCSEs tries to explain clearly the best ways to keep options open......GCSEs are different, but what is taken at GCSE DOES have an impact on what might be taken at A Level.
Of course everyone can check with their individual school about what their policy is.

Again, RS would be a very valid GCSE choice amongst others, or as an A Level choice amongst others. 'Softer' options are clearly appropriate for many candidates too - just not at A Level for those who really want the best chance of entry to top universities for competitive courses. And people with lots of 'softer' GCSEs will find they have less academic A Levels options open to them. I am not saying RS is a 'softer' option. Good schools will direct students to a good range of subjects for their ability range. For the most able, it will be fine to have a 'soft' GCSE and some that are not 'facilitating' at A Level, but ensuring there are enough in the GCSE mix so that at least 2 can be chosen at A level, bearing in minds presences and what they are good at matters. If an able student only has Maths and Englsih as facilitating. Subjects at GCSE and fills up their humanities choice with RS and their science choice with combined science which might make A Level science entry difficult, and hasn't picked a language (common these days), when they pick their A Levels, they will find getting 2 A level facilitating subjects very difficult, especially if they don't like/aren't good at maths or English - follows through to potentially limited options universities which expect to see 2 Facilitating subjects and have very specific requirements for some courses. So not the only consideration by any means at GCSE, and not a consideration at all for many.....but certainly relevant for some.

That's weird, because I just looked at random 6th forms (1st ones I could find) in Suffolk, Leics & Lincs, and none of them required GCSE in history-RS-geography to do the A-level. Pass in GCSE English yes, that seems universal, plus >=C for geography. Maybe I just got lucky.