Girl cathedral chorister at 13+

[Whereupon]

MY DD loves singing and has been offered a place in a cathedral girls' choir, where the girls are between age 13 and 18. Does anyone have any experience of what it is like being in that kind of choir? How do the girls manage to fit in the cathedral commitments plus GCSEs and A'levels? Do they face problems with changing voices? I'd be very interested to hear about people's experiences.

Does anyone have a DD in this position? Or has had in the past?

Hello OP, I think there are a few on here so will bump for you.
My dd sings but not chorister.
Congratulations to your dd, she must be very good.

My DD is a chorister, has been since 11, and is sitting GCSEs.

I assume from what you have written its a choir associated with a boarding school? If so the school will ensure she manages her time.
In my case my DD is at a separate day school, and she has learnt a lot about time management.

You will want to talk to them about how flexible they are with the girls when sitting GCSEs. In our case we have quite a bit, and my DD takes homework with her when she has long rehearsals/weekends away.

It is a big commitment and only works if the girl wants to do it, and realises it will mean she has to miss out on things (DD has had to miss several birthday parties). But it is great for the right girl. DD says she loves Mozart, best concert was St Matthews Passion. She has a great close group of friends, and has had experiences money can't buy.

My DD was a choral scholar at school, and is now at University . It has worked out fine for her in terms of achieving academically , but your DD must be really wanting to take on the commitment ( sounds as though she does , though!) it has been a wonderful experience for my DD and I would whole heartedly recommend it.

You need theas18 on the Extra curricular section, I suggest you repost in there.

I have a chorister DS who is having an amazing experience, but probably not relevant to your query.

Girls' voices do change as they mature, although not as dramatically as boys'. In the context of a cathedral choir, she should be getting regular voice lessons and assessments and any issues will be picked up and dealt with.

Hello OP

I missed the bit about the changing voice. From what i know the girls voice doesn't change drastically during puberty, we are going through this with dd atm. The voice is a bit breathier without trying to get that effect, iykwim and it does lower slightly.
My dd can hit a note a tone lower than previously, but has still kept her highest notes.
I agree that her voice will be monitored and the lessons will be with highly experienced teachers, used to this.

Oh on changing voice. DD has had a lot of throat infections, which I believe are related to this, this was always an allowed absence, and she's done very well in choir despite this.
A couple of years ago there was a senior girl with a real voice issue. Even when she couldn't sing for months they kept her involved by getting her to help coach some of the younger ones etc. The choir also know a choir voice expert - to whom the girl was referred. She gained a scholarship to one of the music colleges in the end.

But asking these questions of the choir/school your DD has been offered a place at is all part of the sensible decision process.

Sorry I missed this thread. I have direct experience of this. DD1 now doing a masters at uni sang from 11- 18 at cathedral (now has a choral scholarship that she's held through her 1st degree too) and 15yr old year 11 dd2 is a current chorister.

No choir school so local grammar and travel into the city.

Fitting school and cathedral is a juggle especially as, I expect your DD is as well, they are v musical and have many other commitments too. However they learned to juggle things well with no detriment on academic results for DD1 (though she is pretty academically able it appears from her uni progress). Exam leave is allowed for gcse/a levels not ordinary school exams.

Most importantly the life skills gained by all the juggling and bring a " committed child" at school has meant that dd1 has continued to manage everything ( study, singing and a very decent social life) at uni too.

Changing voice issues just haven't happened- girls voices do change a bit - a point between 11 and 13 ish when they suddenly developed a power I didn't realise, but quality wise, because they sing in the Anglican tradition and are trained to sing like boys that's how they sound - but better lol. DD1 can now sound more adult female if she wishes but not the pop style belting it out, and if there is a solo that needs more of the boy treble sound she'll be give it.

Hope your DD likes the choir. It's been great for all mine (DS was a chorister too and when he retired swiftly moved to an adult choir and is still singing at uni)

I think my DD will find it hard at first to fit everything in and be in the right place at the right time, but hopefully she will grow up fast and learn to cope! I know that she will love all the singing. I imagine that being in a serious choir at that age (rather than younger) must mean that they learn to sing quite hard music and reach quite a good level?

They certainly do get pretty good quickly just because it is expected of them. They also develop phenomenal sight reading ability due to doing pretty much everything on minimum rehearsal !

They sing quite hard music whether 7 or 13 or older!
They learn to be professional. In school choir you have weeks of rehearsal, in a Cathedral choir you often have an hour at most.

Eg. for Evensong on a week day, they have a rehearsal in the hour before, when they run through the music (excluding hymns you are expected to know/sight read those). If there is something tricky or special they may spend 10 minutes or so in their rehearsal earlier in the week.

For a big special service - they may have an extra 1 hour rehearsal; but that is learning music by Schubert/Mozart/Bach etc. (possible 3 Anthems, plus Mass settings etc.).

I think it is a lot like: Youth Orchestra, serious Drama groups etc. the young people are expected to be professional and rise to it - whilst still being young people (boys running around wildly, girls discussing favourite TV shows or going to wild parties).

Mummytime you are so right! As a result they can be just a little intolerant of peers who " need to practice" . DS is especially guilty of this as he's got involved in uni music where dd never bothered - a term to prep for a concert seems like forever I think!

DD was in a school choir last year, she missed at least 1/2 the rehearsals and still kept her place because she just didn't need that much rehearsal - she quit this year as she couldn't commit to it.

I wouldn't worry about the issue of sounding like a boy treble - as others have said it's a matter of training. My initial singing experience was in that tradition, but singing lessons as an adult have given me access to a wider range of sounds (specifically, the use of passagio necessary for more operatic sounds - though I'd still say Baroque was the sound that comes naturally to me, and I'm never going to be a Wagnerian soprano ). Though I certainly can't do a "pop vocals" sound (not that I particularly have a burning desire to do so). Would love to be able to sing Strauss convincingly though!

I don't think that girls, and particularly older girls, need to sound like boy trebles. The cathedrals have boy treble choirs already, and my feeling at the moment is that the different sound of older girl voices is a positive addition to that boy treble tradition. The sounds don't need to be identical. Just as boy treble choirs such as King's Cambridge and SATB choirs such as Trinity Cambridge co-exist happily, sounding different but both of very high quality.

What does SATB stand for? I have seen it often on the blurb about sheet music I'm thinking of buying.
Couldn't find what it meant so left it there. Is it for choir?

Satb is just what a piece of must is set for - soprano alto tenor bass in 4 parts.

Many other combinations exist but unless you look at choral music lots you won't notice.

SS - two soprano parts

SSA - two sops and an alto

Etc

All the way to, well anything! With SATBx 2 being two 4 part choirs for instance.

I have no idea how the 40 part motet Spem in Alium is set- it is 8 choirs of 5! Look it up if you haven't ever heard it...

Wow, thanks theas

I should have guessed the SATB, but I'm still in old money and familiar with girls voices of soprano, mezzo soprano/ mezzo, mezzo contralto and contralto.
Is Alto just confined to choral works? Or my old system confined to something else. It's quite confusing at times.

DD teacher refers to her as a mezzo she can easily sing from top G to about a below middle c. Ahhs and oos she can sing higher but not lyrics iyswim.