scholarships to private schools specifically aimed at state-educated pupils

[kitnkaboodle]

As the mother of a highly academic, currently Y6 son, these MN education forums have turned my head!
He's been state-educated all along and is going to local good state secondary from September. We looked at scholarships to a couple of local private schools but still wouldn't have afforded the fees even if he'd got a scholarship. We did talk to the bursars too - no joy as we have too many assets, though both DP and I on lowish incomes.
I've just learned that Eton offer (rare!) specific scholarships to state-educated kids. Are there other scholarships for state pupils like this that I wouldn't know about, never having been in the private sector at all? Anywhere that I could consult to get a complete picture? I presume that such scholarship exams would be geared to the state curriculum, or would they expect the child to have a wider knowledge of, say, languages or suchlike??
Obviously looking at 13+ entry now.
Hope you can help

kitnk there are two points to consider IMO before continuing with this . First, you have to think about why your DS2 would benefit in particular from a boarding environment (since local independent schools are a dead-end). Being highly academic does n't always correlate with a desire to take advantage of extracurricular activities and being social. A boarding school would need to be persuaded of those reasons. Secondly should the outcome be positive there would be less to spend on your DS1. That is less of an issue if one DC has exceptional needs but if your DS1 is rather like your DS2 that makes it more difficult.
Sixth form entry aided places for state applicants are available in many top schools as mentioned previously and could be a possibility for both your DSs?

One of our local day schools has awards specifically for ha tenant families. They would normally apply at 11+ from state schools but they now pretest for 13+ entry in year 6/7 so it would still be a possibility. Maybe others offer similar elsewhere?

If you are so keen on private education why are you not using the £50k in the bank to fund it?

There are plenty of full fees payers who have virtually no savings who struggle to scrape the fees together from earned income. Is it fair that they should subsidise fees for someone with a nice lump of savings who just doesn't want to spend it?
Bursaries are limited and should be reserved for those who have no access to resources to fund fees.

I see no reason why you should get special consideration just because your son has attended state primary.

Human beings are such contrary creatures. Fifty grand in the bank and a good school on the doorstep - but MN has whispered in your ear and spoilt it all.

Here's the deal. I'm guessing your local day school has local day school fees - so sacrificing your inheritance money seems a perfectly justifiable stricture. But it's hardly going to touch the sides at a boarding school. First year's fees, kit and general toing and froing will disappear it all quick sharp.

Luckily this is perfectly obvious to the relevant schools. Have you contacted E? Or any of the other big name boarding establishments? Do it now and you may hear some better news.

"Human beings are such contrary creatures. Fifty grand in the bank and a good school on the doorstep - but MN has whispered in your ear and spoilt it all"

Tonbridge offer something like this, they pay for pupils to go to a local prep (think its Hilden Grange) for Y7 and 8

50K cash is not going to do you any favours when applying for any sort of bursary though

OnGoldenPond - I hear you! And I hear the Bursar of local indie who said the same. I can't argue with that, and I guess I never realised that fee-paying parents actually liquidated their assets, borrowed, spent savings/inheritances, did without pensions etc, just to pay fees*. I just assumed that they were 'rich'!! Excuse the ignorance - this is really the first time that either DP or I have had any dealings at all with the private sector. We have no family history of it and it's a completely new world to me.

Sounds like we'd get same response from most day schools (ie they'd ask us to give them our £50K!), but that boarding schools might be more fruitful.

Yes, our problem is that DS1 is equally academic (would prob. score higher than DS2 in CATs/IQ test, whatever) so could not justify to him spending a lot on DS2's education and risking a rift between them. The difference between them is that DS1 is bookish but quite lazy but has no interest in anything much extracurricular. DS2, on the other hand loves sports (cricket, football, athletics, though no great star at any) and also drama and music (sings, plays 2 instruments and v good music potential, I'd think). That's why we thought of dabbling in the independent sector for him. He's very driven, into everything and rather good at most.

Thanks for all your replies - it's an eye-opener

*PS - is it REALLY worth it??!

Why don't you move to a grammar area and go for a super selective - you'll find some of them outdo some independent day schools and they are free!

I guess I never realised that fee-paying parents actually liquidated their assets, borrowed, spent savings/inheritances, did without pensions etc, just to pay fees. I just assumed that they were 'rich'!

If for nothing but that one sentence this has to be the most illuminating thread of the week.

Well said OP.

"Why don't you move to a grammar area and go for a super selective - you'll find some of them outdo some independent day schools and they are free!"

Er- except for the teensy weensy matter of getting in.............

... And moving house would be a bit unfair on already settled DS1.

moving house would be a bit unfair on already settled DS1. Moving to a boarding school would be unsettling too

Er- except for the teensy weensy matter of getting in.. Shouldn't be a problem if OPs ds is as bright as she says. The superselectives here (Kent) don't have catchment areas.

... But DS1 wouldn't be moving if DS2 went to boarding school.

(He might be a little put out ...)

"Shouldn't be a problem if OPs ds is as bright as she says. The superselectives here (Kent) don't have catchment areas"

Nope. No problem at all!

kitnk sounds as though your DS2's energy and activity would be an explanation why it was worth pursuing a boarding school for him and not for your DS1. The answer to your question -if the teaching in your state secondary school is rather good- is difficult for most to answer.
It is similar IMO with trying to quantify the cost benefit of an excellent university experience over a degree acquired by distance learning.

Personally I think it is only worth it for the top private schools particularly if you can keep going his extracurricular interests out if school and he is unlikely to be disengaged by the teaching at your local school.

kitnkaboodle we are in a similar position to you, I sympathize. Our DD (younger child) has been awarded a scholarship and small top up bursary for a good local private school. However, the only cash assets we have are funding my business expansion - we cannot divert these as they are all we have to make it work. The timing could not be worse, but I have the impression from the bursar that we should be using this cash for making up the fees rather than employment - I disagree. Meeting with the HT next week and shall throw myself prostrate at his feet!

Idespair I will be interested to know how you get on. I suspect may parents could claim that timings are bad. My DH would like to start a business but timings make this impossible. In fact 8 years ago he deliberately moved to a job which may not be somewhere he wishes to work till he retires to ensure financial security because of the school fees.

Kit, sorry I probably seemed quite harsh was feeling a bit grumpy

The thing is, you don't seem to realise how fortunate you are having £50k in the bank which is not earmarked for something essential.

I am one of those parents who have run down all savings due to paying school fees and now pay solely from income. We just about manage day fees for DS as we don't like the state option for him but DD goes state as there is a good option for her. We can't even consider boarding as can't afford it.

In my circumstances it would stick in my throat that I was expected to pay towards a bursary for someone who has £50k sitting in the bank when I have run down all my savings.

I know a relative of a friend who has a boy on a bursary place. She is a single parent of 3 on low income living in a small council flat. I would be happy to contribute to that bursary as his mum would simply have no way of funding the fees herself.

I don't qualify for a bursary and that is fair as I am able to scrape the fees together though now have no savings. Bursaries should not be for those with a spare £50k in the bank!

There's a lot of recruiting from DD's (state comp ends yr11) to private 6th forms, including boarding schools at other end of the UK. The private schools come in and do a pitch at the top ability pupils, with bursaries etc. potentially on offer.

I can't decide how I feel about it. Blatent poaching of the best pupils from the state sector.

... Pitching to pupils rather than parents does sound highly unethical.

Yup, there are posters around the schools listing those pupils who went to XYZ prestigious schools for 6th form.

It's complicated IMO and is vey much depends on the individual. You could argue that everyone should have some money in savings in case the boilers breaks down and needs replacing or something similar. How much equity in your home is reasonable and how much is too much, especially as few can get 100% mortgages now a days? What about mortgage length is it reasonable to expect a couple in their early thirties to extend their mortgage to say 35 years and reduce their monthly payments whereas a couple in their early fifties buying a house are unlikely to even want or get a 25 year term mortgage. What about house size? One room for each child or should same sex children share, or house value; you could sell you pretty cottage and buy the same size ex council house for 100k less but is this fair to expect parents to do this? And the thorny issue of holiday, is there a case for saying that parents receiving a bursary and working hard to pay the school fees should have a cheap family holiday every year? No school is trying to kill off parents in the process of earning sufficient funds to pay fees? What about cars, you can't expect high millage parents to be driving around in clapped out death traps, or those who are rural with no public transport to have on,y one car but can you say for example those living and working in London might have in some circumstances good enough public transport links to only require a small run around car or only own one car?

OP

we've been going round in circles over this one for the last six months, happygardening put us onto the Sherwood Award at Harrow, which is particular to our location, and we are looking into it

Harrow awards

However, you could do a whole lot worse than contact Francesca Moultrie, access advisor at Eton College, who's very approachable and helpful, and represents a school determined to widen access [and probably the only one with the capital to do so]

Our beloved DS is chafing at the bit to go somewhere else, and can't wait to sit 11+ and go on elsewhere, anywhere? He's still dreaming of going to Eton, but that may change by Y9. Long road to go yet. He's in Y5 still, so our 'brain on a stick' won't be competing with yours

Happy - all the conditions mentioned by you I have seen as conditions imposed by schools to qualify for bursaries. Quite rightly so.

I am living with most of of those conditions in order to get the money together to pay full fees and I think that is fair.

In the end it should be remembered that private education is not a right. I support bursaries for DCs from deprived families for whom it may well be the only way to avoid very poor schooling and an environment that is hostile to education. However, I'm not sure of the value for a DC from a relatively comfortable middle class family.

What about future inheritance? A friend of mind received a very substantial bursary for her DC as she had a modest income and life style. 6 months after leaving school her elderly parent (late 90's) died and she inherited 800k, she'd always know this was likely to occur. Is there a case for saying that schools should investigate these sort of things and draw up some kind of contract stating if substantial money inherited in the say five years after leaving that a payment to the school bursary fund would be expected? I'm no lawyer so this may not be possible but nursing homes take charges against homes so maybe it is.
I just want to add I don't know the answer to any of these questions just thing out loud.