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Maths teachers! Please help with this Maths' problem.....Thank you :)

25 replies

Mel2Mel · 24/02/2015 17:59

Hi, I would really appreciate your help with this problem :

arctan x + arccos x = pi/4

OP posts:
jeanne16 · 24/02/2015 18:08

Far better to post queries of this type on Student Room.

ihatethecold · 24/02/2015 18:13

I've just posted a question in chat similar to yours. I got a few answers straight away.

Mel2Mel · 24/02/2015 18:21

Thank you very much for your replies :)

jeanne16 - I have posted it and so far 15 views but no reply :(

ihatethecold - btw great name, I hate the cold as well ;) You've posted it in chat ? Where please?

PS: I am new to Mumsnet and the question is for my son

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SoupDragon · 24/02/2015 18:37

What level of maths is this? I could ask DSs (YR 11 & YR 9 and supposedly good at maths)

lougle · 24/02/2015 18:41

Does this help?

ihatethecold · 24/02/2015 18:44

I showed my ds. Yr 10 and he didn't have a clue.

helpful

Mel2Mel · 24/02/2015 18:44

Great lougle, thank you so much :) I'll show him this link.

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larrygrylls · 24/02/2015 18:50

1 is the answer. Arc tan(1) is p/4 and arccos(1) is 0.

Mel2Mel · 24/02/2015 18:52

It is a higher level, that's why.
My son is a highly able year 11 but he is doing extra work on his own. He's been stuck with this for a couple of day....without a tutor so I decided to search for help.
Thank you so much for all your help :)

The student room has been active as well :)

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larrygrylls · 24/02/2015 18:54

Not sure of a systematic approach, though. Don't think there is one, I just know tan(45) (or pi/4 in radians) is 1 and then realised cos(0)=1.

Mel2Mel · 24/02/2015 18:57

larrygrylls He is just finishing his homework and I'll get him to see your reply because it is away over my head :)

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Mel2Mel · 24/02/2015 20:20

He had just looked at and he had tried many methods including this one but he believes it has something to do with the sum formula of tang....I have no clue :(

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noblegiraffe · 24/02/2015 21:33

I just got wolfram alpha to solve it

m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=solve+arctanx+%2B+arccosx+%3D+pi%2F4&x=-989&y=-72

There are three solutions. One is larry's of 1, the other two are hideous and involve complex numbers. I can't imagine how he is supposed to get those solutions. Where on earth has he got this question from?

nextnn · 24/02/2015 23:16

It's a cute question. noblegiraffe, two of your three solutions are non-real, and he's probably not even supposed to know that's a possibility :-)

My guess is that he was supposed to differentiate arccos(x) + arctan(x), show that that's monotonic, and hence that the extremal solution easy to spot is the only one, but here's how I'd do it as an informal argument that doesn't even need calculus. Draw a graph that shows both... curse this question for using x where it does... let's say theta on the horizontal axis, x on the vertical axis. Plot x = cos theta from theta = 0 to theta = pi. On the same graph plot x = tan theta from theta = -pi/2 to +pi/2. Now imagine a horizontal line, i.e. constant function f(theta) = x, gradually descending. Where that line intersects the cos graph, read down to the theta axis; where it intersects the tan graph, ditto. Add up those theta values. That's what has to come to pi/4 at the value (or values) of x that we're looking for. What happens?

Well, for large values of x we just can't follow that procedure, because our horizontal line intersects only the tan graph, not the cos one. That's because, for example, "arccos 5" doesn't exist: there is no angle whose cos is 5. Same for large negative values of x. Fine, any solutions there are must lie in [-1,1].

The largest value of x we can actually consider is x=1, and indeed, lo and behold, it works. But are there any other solutions? Well, if you consider continuing to bring the line down ever so gradually, see what happens. (Calculus hidden here ;-) Imagine the intersection points as beads on the wires of the cos and tan graphs, joined by a horizontal beam along which they can slide as they must to stay on both their curves and the horizontal line. The theta contribution that comes from the cos graph goes up a bit, but the contribution that comes from the tan graph goes down a bit. How do those two effects balance? Because the cos graph is less steep than the tan graph, the overall effect is to increase arccos(x) + arctan(x) - you have to bring the cos-contribution further up, to get the point on the cos graph to the new lower x value, than you have to bring the tan-contribution down. One can see (handwave, or differentiate if you like) that this continues all the way to x=0. At this point, we have arccos(0) +arctan(0) = pi/2, safely nowhere near a solution, as expected. And indeed, if we keep on bringing our horizontal line down, the same argument carries on applying: each time x decreases a bit, arccos(x) + arctan(x) goes up a bit, because we subtract a bit for the arctan change, but add a bigger bit for the arccos change. Eventually we hit x=-1 and can go no further. We'd have found another solution if there'd been one, but we didn't, so there wasn't. QED ;-)

claraschu · 24/02/2015 23:24

Wow, nextnn, you are seriously cool!

nextnn · 25/02/2015 00:03

aww, thanks claraschu! < Wanders off blushing and planning the next namechange >

Mel2Mel · 25/02/2015 17:40

Hello ladies, thank you for your replies. As this level is away beyond my abilities, I had to wait for his return home.
He has just read your replies, he is very amused by the interactions :)

This is his comment after sending answer yesterday : ''I used the Sum formula for Tangent to simplify the expression into a polynomial: one of the solutions is 1 and the other 2 are complex numbers.''

The question is from Stanford University.

Thank you again :)

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Mel2Mel · 25/02/2015 18:37

nextnn Thank you so much for the time you have taken to answer the question. He has copied it and printed to look at it carefully. Thank you again

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sleepwhenidie · 25/02/2015 18:41

The power of MN! Grin

TeenAndTween · 25/02/2015 18:44

I think I have forgotten more maths than I realised. Sad
This is the first maths problem on MN I haven't been able to do.

larrygrylls · 25/02/2015 19:55

You can rewrite the problem slightly as: sin(A)=tan(B) where A+B=pi/4. Then you can use the tan formula tan(A+B)=1 =(tanA+tanB)/(1-tanAtanB). You can then use the trig identity 1+tan2(A)=sec2(A) and finally t=tanA. When you make a few substitutions and multiply out you get a quartic in t with a trivial solution (t=0) and a cubic. You would then have to solve a non-trivial cubic to get all the roots.

Definitely non trivial!

Thanks for sharing it.....

TeenAndTween · 25/02/2015 19:57

So nice to hear 'trivial' used in a maths context again. Smile

larrygrylls · 25/02/2015 20:02

Sorry. meant cosA=tanB..for those who cared!

Mel2Mel · 25/02/2015 20:20

Thank you very much larrygrylls

It's my first time on MN and I am really impressed with all the help and the support :) Thnak you all again :)

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Everhopeful · 28/02/2015 21:03

Strewth! creeps off to master advanced gibberish as they're speaking in tongues again I am in awe of you all having always been a bit rubbish at the sort of maths you can't easily work out where the pound sign goes...

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