School application from overseas (long, sorry!)

[itsveryyou]

We’ve had problems with applying for a high school place for DS as we’re currently living overseas but will be back in our house before Year 7 starts in September. Before we moved in 2012, I contacted the C of E academy which we wanted to apply to, and they said in writing that we could apply from overseas, provided we could ‘prove’ property ownership, contract end dates, continuing church attendance etc – which we did.

We applied last September and were suddenly told by the school that the application wouldn’t be considered as we weren’t currently living in the catchment area – we were incredibly upset about this change of heart, and have been offered no explanation as to why their stance has changed. The LA says the school does have the ability to exercise discretion and ‘allow’ applications from overseas, but it seems they’re not willing to.

This particular school is oversubscribed and so if we wanted to try to get a place, we would have to wait and appeal when we got back to the UK, three weeks before school term starts (can’t come back any earlier due to work contract) – which is not enough time for an appeal to be launched and a decision made. We don’t want DS to be in a different school for a few weeks of Year 7, then have to transfer if the appeal is successful, nor do we want the stress of an appeal – but his ‘best’ friends will be going to the CofE academy, and it’s an excellent school in terms of results and pastoral care – so should we try, for his sake?

We’re inclined to go with our second choice school, which is non-faith and not oversubscribed, but still strong in terms of results/activities/pastoral, but it’s not the school most of DS’s friends will be going to. Do we owe it to him to appeal for a place at the CofE academy and hope he gets in, or do we go for the second choice, which it’s most likely he will get a place at and be able to start with everyone else in Sept?

Number of points here. I do not know why the school told you that because the whole point of the admission process is that it is based on the address that your son is living at on the last day of on-time applications. That is clearly not in the UK but where you are currently. Until you are in a position to confirm a date when son will be resident in the UK, at the address you own, neither the school or the LA will use that address. We are also talking about the fact that most LAs and schools will only accept someone being offered a place if they can start within a few weeks. Hence not till the start of the summer holidays in July from what you are saying in your post.
The LA are also wrong in my opinion about the discretion to admit the school has. The school has no discretion, it has to use its agreed admission criteria and policy and that is the law. I can only think that someone in the LA is confusing the situation that exists when service or crown personnel are returning from service abroad, when there is more latitude on the address used and timings.
You could apply for the place at the preferred school anyway in say mid June and then go to appeal. The idea that you have something in writing that says you could apply from overseas but use your UK address from the school could work in your favour at appeal - it will certainly give the panel an interesting set of decisions to make. There is once you have applied and been rejected no problem in accepting a place at the second preference school whilst you await an appeal - actually you do not need to be at the appeal for it to proceed but it is obviously best if you can be.

Thanks for your comments and taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it! I just think we were advised incorrectly by both the school and the LA, and there's nothing we can do about that (apart from feel very misled!) The school states it adheres to the admissions criteria set out by the LA - but the LA has told me numerous times that the school could decide whether to accept our application as it could be considered 'extenuating circumstances'.

Do you think we will receive a 'rejection' letter once the school has completed its admissions process and places are announced on March 1st? We've been told by the school that we can't launch an appeal until we are resident in our house (which will be Aug 17th) - does that sound correct?

On that basis, if we chose to appeal mid Aug, it wouldn't be progressed til early Sept when school resumes and would possibly take up to 6/8 weeks to reach a decision - at which point, DS will have been settling into another school for more than half a term and I'm not sure it would be best to move him at that stage.

Thanks for your help, it's helping me get my thoughts clear in my head.

Schools can and do change their admissions policies OP so it's possible that this may have been OK in 2012 but is no longer the case now.
Yes you should still receive some sort of notification on allocations day 1st March. This depends on the LEA but there will either be an email or letter or area that you can logon on the website. You will also be sent info about waiting lists and how to appeal.
Usually appeals for Y7 starters are held in June/July so August would probably be too late. Is there any chance that perhaps you could return to the UK in early July so that you could Appeal before the school Summer holidays?
The argument that most of his friends would be going to the faith school wouldn't be grounds for appeal.

I know the friends issue isn't ground for appeal, it's just something that's bothering me in terms of DS being able to settle into his new school as easily as possible. We can't move back before DH's work contract ends, that's not something we have control of, unfortunately.

It's not possible for you and Ds to come back early?

"We've been told by the school that we can't launch an appeal until we are resident in our house "

I'm not sure this is right.

Maybe your dh can't move back ahead of the contract ending, but could you and the dcs?

The DCs and I could technically come back early, but we don't think it's practical for us to move back to the UK and leave DH to pack up the house here, sell furniture and tie up all the loose ends, as well as work full time.

The school told us an appeal could take 8 weeks, and wouldn't be held during the summer holidays, so in light of that, we'd have to move back mid May when the kids are still in school here, which again isn't really an option.

The school would probably be right in saying that the child needs to be in residence to launch an appeal based on the near by address. However did you apply for a place as you would normally in the UK? If so I presume you used the expected address and that is why the school / LA rejected the initial application. It strikes me that if you applied and expressed your preferences for this and other schools, then you should be considered for a place based on your current address, somewhere abroad.
If the school and the LA have just plain rejected your application then they have not applied the admission rules correctly.
If you think they have just rejected then I would email them both now and say am I not being considered for places based on my current address when I know I will be resident back in the house I own by September. The reality is that you are unlikely to get a place but by having been rejected it does give you the right to go to appeal for September admission. That will definitely be held in May/ June not after September.

Hi admission - yes, we applied by before the deadline last October, as we were advised to do. As advised by the LA, we put our UK address on the form, with an explanation about our current location, and supporting 'evidence' about our return dates etc which we were asked to supply. Back in 2012, the school even helped me find the right church to attend over here to enable us to qualify for continuing church attendance, so they've known our circumstances all along!

It was only when I called the school last October to check they had received the application pack that I was told that they'd received it, but wouldn't consider it as we are living overseas.

I guess we will either have to appeal as soon as we have the formal rejection, if indeed we can from overseas - or we can hopefully get a place at the second choice school, which at the moment is seeming like the favourable option in terms of stability and security for DS - which is the most important thing.

Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it.

It doesn't sound like you will get a formal rejection as your application hasn't even been considered.

Did you send the pack to the school or the LA?

titchy - I'm not sure at this stage - the school said they wouldn't consider it, but then they might be obliged to, as part of the usual admissions process, even if they know they will reject it.

AKnicker - we sent a copy of the application pack to both LA and school, they both advised us to.

The school told us after we applied that we had to be back in our house by Feb 16th 2015 to be considered 'resident' - they hadn't mentioned this before and it's not in any of the paperwork for applicants. All a bit frustrating really :0(

I believe that you need to contact the LA,who are responsible for the number crunching on all allocations, no matter who has admission responsibility. You need to get them to confirm before the 1st March (when places will be allocated) that as an on-time application your application will be considered from the address abroad. You have told them the UK address and when you will be resident and therefore there is no reason why they should not be considering your application from the non-UK address, especially given the poor advice offered by both school and LA about using the UK address.

A very small chance you will get a place at the preferred school but you never know. At the very least it gives you the opportunity to appeal and show the appeal panel that you were promised in writing that the UK address would be acceptable. If you do not sort this now, then you will end up chasing your tail for ages, as after 1st March all hell breaks loose with all those other people who did not get their first preference wanting what they cannot all have.

Sound advice, thank you! I don't have much faith in the LA at this stage, having been given such conflicting and seemingly incorrect info, but you're right, it's worth a call to chat through where we are with regards to the process.

A few months ago, a friend of mine who's a parent at our preferred school was in the school office for something, and mentioned she had a friend applying from abroad, but didn't mention my name. The admissions assistant then took it upon herself, out of the blue, to discuss my son's application with my friend, saying there wouldn't be a problem with him being allocated a place!! It's all a huge mess to be honest, and I begin to wonder if we'd have been better keeping quiet in the first place and not mention being overseas...but then we're honest so would never do that, and we were led to believe that the system might support us.

Thanks for listening x

You wouldn't have done better not to mention being overseas.

If they had found out you had been untruthful on your application - such as evidence someone else was living in your house at the time etc. etc. Your DC could have got a place, only to have it withdrawn immediately and them having to leave the school - even once they had started in the autumn.

We lived abroad and moved back to the UK at the end of Y7. I did still have a house in the UK so maybe that made a difference, in that we had a UK address. I managed to sort a secondary school and a primary school out from overseas. It was all done over the phone and via emails. I didn't get my son into our first choice school and I did an appeal from abroad. I paid a solicitor to represent us, didn't have to but thought it best. The appeal failed!
We came back to the UK at the very end of August and everyone started work and school 3 or 4 days later, both children were able to look round their school the last day of the holidays when both Headteachers were in working and showed them round, we bought uniforms on that day. I couldn't even do that because I was looking round my new school!
Good luck with it all.

mummytime I know, we wouldn't have lied about our location, but sometimes one wonders about whether everyone is so honest..!

mygrandchildren we also have our home, which we're returning to, but still to no avail. I think our second preference school will be the way forward as they're not oversubscribed and DS will be able to start along with everyone else, all being well. Our younger DS will slot back into his former class at primary school, where the head teacher has been very supportive and accommodating with our particular circumstances.

Thanks for your messages!

LAs have been known to employ PIs to check up on addresses.

Even in very over subscribed schools students have got places when they have moved into the area, in the summer term, or even on appeal early in the autumn.
My DDs school even had a student start from overseas at the beginning of year 11 (they have a special timetable and are doing a reduced load of GCSEs).

Hi, me again! I wondered if any of the Appeals experts out there could advise? Today I got this email from the LA, replying to one in which I asked if we could still put DS's name on waiting lists for our preferred schools. Kind of confused about the 'appeal' option as we haven't been offered a place, so we're not sure what we're appealing against! Should we appeal? How would we be best to approach this? Thanks for any help, am up to my armpits with confusion here!

""Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Unfortunately as you are not yet in the country we won't be able to issue you a letter, however you will still be able to appeal and request to go on the reserve list for the schools you requested. I have attached all the details you need – ignore the Friday 13th deadline for the reserve list we will still accept your request.""

You are not appealing against anything. You are appealing for a place at your preferred schools. You appeal for each school individually. If the appeal panel decides in your favour you will get a place at that school immediately without having to wait until you reach the head of the waiting list. You won't be able to argue that a mistake has been made but you can still make a case that your son will be disadvantaged if he goes to the allocated school (when you get one) rather than the appeal school. That can't be about the relative standards of the schools - no matter how rubbish the allocated school is that doesn't give a case for a successful appeal. It has to be about things your preferred school can offer your son that are missing from the allocated school.

Thanks prh47bridge. So I guess we go ahead and appeal now, and see what happens? Honestly we'd be really happy with a place either of our top two preferences, we just would like a place for DS so we can plan accordingly and make the transition as smooth as possible for him!

If the council is happy for you to appeal now you should go ahead. Ideally you need to arrange to be in the UK when the appeal hearing takes place. If you can't manage it the panel will decide on the basis of your written submission but it is always best to present your case in person if you can.

The council seems happy for us to appeal, however, our first choice school is a faith academy, and we need to contact them for the appeal form, and they have previously said that they won't consider an appeal until we are resident again in the UK, so I'm unclear if an appeal would even be heard...what are your thoughts? It may be possible that DH could be back in the UK for an appeal, as he travels back a lot for work. Otherwise, we could send someone to represent us, I suppose.

I'm in a not dissimilar situation- living abroad and wanting to return to our house and get the kids into local schools.

However I though I wasn't allowed to apply for school places until the kids were actually in the country and we could produce council tax statements/utility bills (which is currently in our tenants name as house is rented) as evidence. Can I apply from overseas using home address once we have a firm return date (eg plane tickets booked) from abroad???