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Original poster

to EPQ or not to EPQ?

60 replies

BrendaBlackhead · 03/02/2015 12:29

ds is in year 12

He is doing three humanities A Levels and Maths

Should he continue with four A Levels (he is good at all of them) or drop one for an EPQ?

He has no idea of his future plans, and nothing jumps out at him regarding what to do a project on. Being rather a chip off the old block, he likes knowing a little about a lot rather than a lot about a little...

If he applies to university he will probably be aiming high, so does the EPQ make any kind of difference? But, as I said, he hasn't the faintest clue what he might like to study so at this stage wouldn't be able to tailor an EPQ to suit a university application.

OP posts:
Molio · 04/02/2015 10:42

Yes that's precisely what I meant about following the spec Td, I was just being too lazy to write it :)

I think half the time schools don't have a clue. I've noticed a strong and consistent pattern of the EP not being used for interview, at least in humanities, for precisely the reasons you state. On the other hand (warning: single example) DS was asked about his EP at all his medicine interviews except Oxford. But those were all more straightforward and conversational, so rather different.

Figmentofmyimagination · 04/02/2015 15:04

For what it's worth, my DD regrets embarking on her EPQ. It seemed like a good idea at the time for all the reasons highlighted on this thread, but it didn't even get a mention in her personal statement, and it doesn't form part of any of her offers. I have spent what feels like months tripping over the books on her EPQ topic in piles on the dining room floor and she still isn't close to completing it. She will complete it, because she says her supervisor has devoted lots of time to helping her, but if she had her time again, she would definitely have stuck to other ways of demonstrating research skills etc.

summerends · 04/02/2015 18:18

Apologies for diverting this thread a bit but Talkin I am intrigued why your DD is thinking of dropping from 5 to 3 A levels (with EPQ). Is it a change of interests or the workload? Or will she already have finished maths by the end of year 12 so basically just dropping one?

TalkinPeace · 04/02/2015 18:27

Summerends
She is doing 5 AS (2 maths, 2 science and an MFL) - the Further maths was always planned to be just for year 12 and for what she wants to do, the AS is plenty (so long as she gets a cracking grade).

The MFL is sad - and I have to be careful what I say as there are lurkers on these threads who know who she and her teachers are. Basically there is too much asinine grammar and essay writing and not enough enjoyment of the language and culture.

Therefore the decision is brewing to go for three really good A2's levels rather than four less good.

The EPQ therefore allows an interesting academic compromise.

summerends · 04/02/2015 18:52

Thanks Talkin. One of my DCs is facing a similar dilemma hence my interest. We were wondering about conversation biased lessons as an extra out of school but not sure about the time commitment.

TalkinPeace · 04/02/2015 19:57

Summer
The MFL speaking and listening is fine - and she's aiming for a high grade, but the essays are just a drag - and will get worse next year. Interestingly her friends doing that and other MFL at that and other colleges and different exam boards are finding the same sort of problem - so its clearly the curriculum more than anything else. these are all kids who got A and A* at GCSEs btw

goinggetstough · 04/02/2015 20:07

talkin I think the problem is with the GCSE syllabus and necessarily the A level one. So much of the GCSE syllabus involved learning stuff, and then writing it out as a pre-prepared essay. IMO that is not really learning a language as if you have a good memory you can do well. Grammar etc is very important and this is often shown at AS/A2 level as essays have to be written and not learnt chunks regurgitated. Your DD's syllabus may not have been like this but I certainly know a few DCs who have had major problems at AS level because of it. I am not a language teacher but have a DD who did 2 MFL at A2 level.

goinggetstough · 04/02/2015 20:10

Sorry my above comments are not about the thread topic.

I do though have a DS who did an EPQ and he found it very useful preparation for university. He researched and wrote his first draft in the summer holidays before year 13. This meant it didn't take up too much time in the autumn term.

TalkinPeace · 04/02/2015 20:22

goinggetstough
Your comments are entirely valid when thinking about whether st stick with the A2 or do an EPQ.
The die is not yet cast so the more views the merrier.

summerends · 04/02/2015 21:26

Essays are a very important part of MFL teaching as that is what happens hand in hand with the language acquisition at a higher level. In DC's case essays etc are fine, it is more a question how to balance an interest in a MFL without narrowing down other future higher education choices or taking on too much.

Original poster
BrendaBlackhead · 05/02/2015 07:35

It is a real shame that fear of not getting a great grade causes so many dcs to drop a language after AS. At ds's college the figures show the number quitting is huge.

Ds was seriously considering French. Unlike TiP's dd, however, he is very good at grammar and essays but is nervous of speaking aloud (he should have done A Levels back in the 80s...).

Of ds's friends the ones doing a modern language A Level nearly all have a French/German parent. (I don't know what went on in our area 17/18 years ago but there seems to have been a lot of entente cordiale Wink .)

To hark back to the 80s again no one I knew had any connection whatsoever with a European country and we all merrily did a languge A Level - but then again there wasn't the desperate fear of not making some preposterous grade offer at university.

OP posts:
emkana · 05/02/2015 07:48

I'm not sure how you can describe the learning of grammar as asinine - it is essential if you really want to master a language.
The problem is definitely with the GCSE syllabus, though hopefully things will change. Unfortunately an A* does not mean in any way that you will succeed at A level.

TalkinPeace · 05/02/2015 07:50

FWIW DD is a scientist at heart. The essay writing is a chore full stop.
Hopefully the EPQ will make a balanced addition to year 13

emkana · 05/02/2015 07:54

If she finds essay writing a chore won't the EPQ be a real drag?

With regards to grades for university offers many universities do offers with lower grades if students are applying to do a degree in combination with a mfl.

TalkinPeace · 05/02/2015 09:05

emkana
grades : the courses DD is looking for will not give a stuff about the MFL

as for long writing : no, that in itself is not a problem. IF its a subject that interest her

Hakluyt · 05/02/2015 09:09

IIRC an EPQ doesn't have to be an essay- I'm sure other forms are acceptable. I'll see if I can find out.

emkana · 05/02/2015 09:14

It can take another format but in that case still has to be accompanied by a supplementary report

www.kings-taunton.co.uk/aqa-extended-project/

Hakluyt · 05/02/2015 09:20

"e EPQ is not broken down into separate units. It essentially consists of an independent project carried out solely by the student. Students are able to choose the format that best suits them; formats included a 5000 word dissertation, a 5000 word scientific report, a 1000 word essay supplemented with an artefact (e.g. a sculpture, series of paintings) or a 1000 word essay supplemented with a performance (e.g. a choreographed dance routine, a play). Students can complete an EPQ on any topic, provided that it doesn’t overlap too much with their chosen A-Levels."

I am sure that one of my dd's friends did some scientific research and then the 1000 word essay. I'll ask her later.

Original poster
BrendaBlackhead · 05/02/2015 10:29

Shock After ds was quite adamant it was not for him, he's actually started it already !

OP posts:
TheWordFactory · 05/02/2015 12:07

GCSEs are very poor preparation for A level in MFL.

A good grade can be obtained with very little understanding of grammar at GCSE. But obviously this is part and parcel of proper language acquisition and can't be shirked at the next stage.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 05/02/2015 12:13

My dd finds French the hardest going of her A2s, but it's not the grammar, it's having to argue in essays in a different way from her other subjects. So where in English and History, they aren't allowed to use 'I', or be subjective, in French she's needing to put forward 'je crois que' type arguments, and finds that quite a hard habit to get into. She does well in the speaking, listening and reading, but her lowest marks are always on the essay questions, and they're always for 'essay skills'.

TheWordFactory · 05/02/2015 12:17

That's interesting nit.

Is she still enjoying French overall?

summerends · 05/02/2015 12:52

Theoriginal I assume it is basically a form of persuasive writing, like taking sides in a debate. You have to come down on one side but not discount the arguments to the contrary.

TP scientists need to be able to write well to successfully publish and apply for grants so an extended writing task in your DD's case serves several purposes even if discounted at undergraduate admissions.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 05/02/2015 12:57

Word - mixed, to be honest. She likes the texts and films, and the French conversation sessions, but she has found the style of essay writing a challenge.

Summer - yes, absolutely. And I know first year Lit undergrads find that incredibly difficult, and struggle to shake off the idea that an essay must present one idea and then 'what others may argue'. You'd think it would be liberating, but quite a few seem to be intimidated by it - probably even worse when you're doing it alongside the 'some may argue' subjects, rather than after them!

Bonsoir · 05/02/2015 19:56

TOSN - interesting to read that English pupils struggle to write in the first person in French. I have coached several French pupils for IELTS and one of the recurrent issues for them to overcome is their inclination to write in the first or second person. Writing in a third person passive voice is not at all natural to them!