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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Elevenplus vs Eton

93 replies

Danimirj · 02/02/2015 13:46

Hello my name is Jana, we have one son in second term of Y5 at CofE Primary School in windswept Lincolnshire.

He is not happy there. He is an unusual, intelligent child. He is alert but shy, and small for his age.

We have a Plan A [Eleven plus] and Plan B [move county] for our os, but as thread title says their may be Plan C

I will hand over to my husband who can express himself more easier than I can

Hello, I'm an the other half of the above^^

Our son can speak and write two different languages, English and Serbian, can tell you how a nuclear reactor works, and how it differs from a nuclear bomb, can tell you the difference between a petrol engine and jet engine, and the difference between a hybrid car and an electric car.

He will be ten in at the end of this month. (Feb '15)

About twelve months ago, in desperation, we contacted a number of private school about our son's future.

The one we expected to hear the least from, has been the most welcoming and approachable of all: Eton College.

Since May '14 we have been in contact with a warm but businesslike lady called Francesca, the Access Adviser at that school. We were invited to visit the school in November 2014. We were very impressed with the interest they took in us and our son. Our son came away feeling much more confident about himself, but

However, the range of potential options they can offer seems bewildering to us.

As parents we have zero experience of private education, much less boarding private education.

We would prefer os were happy, popular and settled rather than academically pressurized, but he is just coasting at the moment.

Your thought opinions and personal experiences would be most helpful, if you are willing to share them.

OP posts:
happygardening · 03/02/2015 09:33

Harrow also offer the Peter Beckwith Scholarship for children from state schools they would then pay your fees at a prep, we had a boy at our old prep on this award and as luck would have it for you the Sherwood Award for those who live in Lincolnshire!

grovel · 03/02/2015 09:37

happy, you have excelled yourself with the Sherwood Award!

happygardening · 03/02/2015 09:47

I know I'm just a mine of pointless interesting information. [smug smiley]

happygardening · 03/02/2015 09:52

What about that new school Eton is involved in? Can't remember what it's called but it was in the news recently. They have boarders, or there are state grammer boarding schools there''s Sir Roger Manwoods in Kent.

grovel · 03/02/2015 09:56

Holyport College? I'm not sure that it would be better academically than the Grammar School in Lincs.

happygardening · 03/02/2015 10:50

You're probably right grovel I was just thinking that as it's all very new and they without a doubt want to prove how good they are they might go that extra mile with a bright child.
Bradfield, again would require you to move as is basically a weekly boarding school but a cheaper area than London, also offers substantial bursaries to children from the state sector.

Danimirj · 03/02/2015 13:19

happygardening

thank you for that, you are amazing.

we will enquire.

OP posts:
Danimirj · 03/02/2015 13:22

We looked into Christs Hospital, and were not keen. Sad

OP posts:
happygardening · 03/02/2015 13:45

Christ's doesn't do it for me either but may on here talk very highly of it.
My advise, especially in your circumstances is don't shut anything off, go and have a good look at any that might be remotely viable. Despite what many say on their web sites 100% bursaries are not easy to find so if I was in your shoes I would look at anything that might be a goer, however remote the chances. Many on here will also tell you that they went with high hopes to look at A or went reluctantly to look at B and when they got there completely changed their minds. Websites and quite frequently even open days do not give a true reflection of what is really like, also what works well for one might not be perfect for your DS.
I'm very sorry for you past difficulties, during the war in former Yugoslavia I worked with a lovely lady from Bosnia who was desperately worried and afraid for her family still there and my husband was also working with Serbs, Bosnians, Croats, many refuges from the atrocities, during and after the war, sitting here with our nice lives in the UK we cannot even begin to comprehend what you've all been through. I sincerely hope your DS find the right school for him.

TheCatAteMyTaxReturn · 03/02/2015 13:59

Hello, this is the identity for Mr Danimirj - useless father of delightful child in OP

we are no longer conjoined posters

Danimirj will be our official spokesbeing, but generally assume that Danimirj is from my wifes particularly perspective.

Another rule of thumb - if its got smileys in it, its her, if it hasn't, it's me.

grovel · 03/02/2015 14:21

OP (either of you!), do you have any other children?

I ask because (a) sending one child to Eton and another into the state system raises interesting questions and (b) our DS is an only child and we felt that he would enjoy - and benefit from - having other young people around 24*7 at a boarding school.

peteneras · 03/02/2015 14:37

Mr & Mrs Danimirj, I admire your ambitions for your son’s future and the lengths you have gone to including taking all kinds of pot shots at anything you thought might secure your son a very good education. And oh, I admire your self-confessed ‘thick skins’ too in leaving no stones unturned in order to achieve your aim. Grin

But seriously, you definitely come across to me as a pair of fantastic parents who, in spite of your family circumstances, what, with poor health and limited financial means not to mention an unsecured employment future, gosh, many parents would have given up the ghost by now. . . but not you. Your son is indeed very lucky to have parents like you whose attitude is one of ‘never say die’!

OK, your Eton ambitions are not unrealistic in spite of what your background is. Talking about background, I wonder if your son has any Russian or the former Soviet Union heritage? I ‘ll tell you why later before I submit this post. As you are completely upfront with telling strangers about your detailed and personal family circumstances so as to get help for your son, I’d be upfront too in my suggestions and opinions as to what you should do. I hope you don’t get offended by certain things I might say (because it’s not meant to offend), just that I think sometimes in real life there are situations where the saying, beggars cannot be choosers is indeed very true.

My first posting on this thread asked you what were you expecting from Eton when you applied there taking into consideration your limited means. Actually I already knew the answer - a lot of support and financial help. Yes, this you will definitely get, and more, if Eton thinks your son is worth it. But it will be done on their terms, not yours! Ms Francesca had suggested the New Foundation Scholarship which was exactly the first thing that came to my mind when I first read your post.

OK, but you thought financial help in the form of scholarship/bursary would start at age 10 which was indeed the case until about six years ago. The current NFS replaced the old ‘Junior Scholarship’ which first began in the early 1970’s until around 2009. The JS would guarantee the successful boy his 5 years at senior school, Eton, when he turns 13, and in the meantime Eton would send the boy to a prep school for 2-3 years, any prep school in the land subject to Eton’s approval (they have a list of all prep schools in the nation and they definitely know which is ‘suitable’ and which is ‘not suitable’ [their lingo]). Eton’s expectation is to see its JS going on to win the King’s Scholarship (KS) in his last year at prep school. The success rate of this happening is between 80% and 100%. KS will go to College and the non-KS will go to his guaranteed house (any 1 of 24).

The decision to scrap JS and to replace it with the NFS was not taken lightly. The school had given it many years of thought. For one, the Master-in-College (housemaster of College) was fighting tooth and nail against the Provost & Fellows in their proposal to replace the JS right from the start. College’s (very valid) argument was that the scrapping of the JS would effectively mean the end of (poor) state school boys ever becoming a KS. College would effectively be populated by wealthy prep school boys.

The Governors are not in disagreement with College’s view on this very essential point. It hits right into its guts! After all, the School was founded in 1440 for 70 ‘poor scholars’ who all lived and studied in College. With the supply of KSs from poor backgrounds ended, College would now be populated with 70 posh boys. Founder Henry VI might now be rolling in his grave! Grin

So why are the Governors replacing the JS? The short answer is money. Eton has come to the conclusion that to finance annually, 4 (sometimes 5) Junior Scholars for 8 years each doesn’t make much sense. Eton also has the long term policy to support more poor boys. The money saved from financing a JS for 3 years at prep school can now be distributed more widely to other poor boys, e.g. expanding the Sixth Form Scholarship to take in more boys for 2 years in preparation for their A-levels, etc. A few months ago, the initial target of supporting 70 poor boys schoolwide with 100% bursary had been achieved pre target date. This was a major milestone in the school’s ultimate aim to adopt a needs blind admissions policy.

OP, I gave a long background story about Eton and its current scholarship/bursary policies so that I hope you can now have a clearer picture where you think you might put yourself in this conundrum. For many people out there trying to get a grasp of the whole Eton doo-dah can seem to be running around like headless chickens. Various posters although their intentions are genuine no doubt, are posting unrealistic suggestions. The suggestion to send your son to a prep school now is a non-starter. Who is going to finance you? Certainly not Eton, not any more.

Yes, some prep schools do offer scholarships of one kind or another but not much of a bursary but the money we are talking is more of an insult than an assistance. A previous poster asked a very good question. Even assuming your son did get into a prep school now, is there a guarantee that he would go to Eton or indeed any other public school next?

The way I see it, money is of the essence for you. In my books, only a handful of big name schools can realistically help you and your son. Eton is the one you need to concentrate on. You do seem to have lost your direction a bit. I was very impressed with your lead post saying what your son can do. I’m not surprised Eton was impressed too, that’s the sort of stuff Eton looks for in a boy. Ms Francesca was right. Clear your mind and zero in on the NFS as from now onwards.

But I want you to be under no illusions that success is imminent. Many of the boys who go in for the NFS (previously JS) are of KS calibre. The competition will be extremely tough. Your son is obviously very clever. But from what I see, the pass mark for a certain grammar school you applied to was 220 and your son scored 223 which is just 3 marks over. I’m sure there must be many boys scoring over 223 whose families will have the same ambitions like you. These are the competitions I’m talking about. And they come from all over the country.

I asked at the beginning whether your son has any Russian/Soviet heritage. If he has, he can drastically cut the competition very short by applying to another scholarship offered by Eton - the Tsukanov Scholarships.

In conclusion, I would advise that your son goes to the local grammar for a couple or so years and when the time comes, apply for the NFS [Tsukanov - if applicable] and take it from there. You mentioned about moving schools twice; remember the saying about beggars and choosers? For going to Eton you’re complaining about moving schools twice . . .Confused listen, others would give an arm and a leg and believe me, some may even kill to get their son there!

Good luck in whatever you choose to do. Feel free to PM me if you wish.

grovel · 03/02/2015 14:58

peteneras, any thoughts on the new headmaster? My DS enjoyed him as a teacher.

TheCatAteMyTaxReturn · 03/02/2015 15:02

grovel

No, one son and a PITA* wife is quite sufficient for my needs, anything else and I would be on the frayed ends of sanity. We were nearly a two child family, but alas, no. Like BiH it's a scab we'd rather not pick at.

peteneras

Thank you for your tl;dr post - I promise to read it properly once brain has stopped hurting. Could be some time.

Did read the last few paragraph - no Russian heritage. Taking Mitteleuropa to extremes with what we we do have.

*She refers to me in equally unflattering terms.

peteneras · 03/02/2015 15:25

grovel, don' know Simon at all. Have never met the man. It seems he will make a very good head at Eton. I was chatting with my son's old prep school head in the summer at Ascot and he told me he was terribly disappointed to hear of Simon's new appointment just as he had confirmed his young son's place at Bradfield because Simon is the headmaster there and now he is leaving. . .

IndridCold · 03/02/2015 15:33

I think I might have to try and watch A Yank at Eton Shock.

peteneras · 03/02/2015 15:43

I've always wanted to watch this Mickey Rooney film, Indrid, but so far not been able to get hold of it. Sad

grovel · 03/02/2015 15:57

peteneras, you'd need to be sure that your DVD player is multi-region.

MuddlerInLaw · 03/02/2015 18:34

Yes, some prep schools do offer scholarships of one kind or another but not much of a bursary but the money we are talking is more of an insult than an assistance.

I have tried and tried to persuade people that the above is not the case. No one believes me. There are prep schools (fabulous ones) that award up to 100% bursaries every year. The ones I know of are via scholarship. They're not hidden. (Though I guess it's complicated by the useless places that only suggest they can make such awards.) They may take a bit of effort to identify - and even more to jump through the hoops. And then some luck.

And of course you need to be very, very poor. But it is possible. And the child doesn't need to be a genius. Just fortunate in everything except £££.

derektheladyhamster · 03/02/2015 18:46

It's a shame you weren't keen on Christ's Hospital. It would have certainly helped financially. My DS has been there since he was 11 and is thriving.

However, if we had been in a situation where we had local grammar schools, and Eton had been interested in our son (they might well have been if I'd known about bursery support from other senior schools of course Grin ) I think we would have done the same as Peteneras suggests.

happygardening · 03/02/2015 18:56

Summer Fields Prep appears to offer large bursaries to children from the state sector from yr 7. A. big feeder into all the big names with a high number getting scholarships, lots to a Eton. I'm sure if your DS was successful at getting a place in the yr 6 Eton pre test they'd be very interested in offering him a bursary.

TheCatAteMyTaxReturn · 03/02/2015 19:11

Indrid Cold

sounds like the kind of film I would fall asleep after 33 mins

if beloved gets into TVG, I hope he ends like the captain of Trinity in this

[]

former KS according to the school, and from humble origins apparently.

happygardening

like the use of the world 'appears' in your latest post about the MacLaren scholarships, but thank you for your efforts, nevertheless.

do you work for the ISA, or is it just a hobby, haha.

grovel · 03/02/2015 19:45

But, happy, what if the young man goes to Summer Fields but then does not win a full fees scholarship to Eton (or anywhere else). He would have missed the Grammar school and then what? That's my concern with the prep route as opposed to New Foundation scholarship.

happygardening · 03/02/2015 20:10

I agree with some of what your saying grovel but surely at a school like Summer Field with it's reputation for getting scholarships then if he's bright and wasn't able to get a large enough bursary out of Eton then he could get a scholarship/large bursary somewhere else? Anyway I thought Eton offered 100% bursaries not necessarily attached to scholarships? Here's another option for yr 9 if the OP couldn't get a large enough bursary Cranbrook School another state boarding school but this one starts at yr 9.
I personally think that unless OP is 90% happy with his state option then they needs to consider lots of options.
TheCat perhaps I should have a career change some people say you can make money out of a hobby Grin.