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Secondary education

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Original poster

G&T - is it basically a box ticking exercise for Ofsted?

29 replies

MyballsareSandy · 30/01/2015 12:00

I have two DDs in year 9. According to their last report DD1 was one level behind where she should be in PE and DT. However, she came home with a letter saying she had been identified as 'gifted and talented' in both these subjects, putting her in the top 5% of pupils in her year.

DD2 - effort level was 'requires improvement' and grade was one level behind where she should be, and she also had a G&T letter for PE.

I don't get it. I know it depends on the class and the school etc etc, but it's a good school, with lots of bright pupils. Surely if they are 'behind' in a subject then they can't be in the top 5%.

It seems random, as though the school thought 'shit, ofsted will need to see our G&T data, let's pick a few kids and tick that box'.

Nothing ever happens to these 'g&t' kids, no extra work or trips or anything. What is the point of it?

I obviously haven't expressed these views to the DDs! But I'm interested in the mumsnet view.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 30/01/2015 13:53

I told a few of my Y11s that they were on my register as G&T and they didn't have a clue, they'd never even been told, let alone got anything out of it. Do your kids play in a sports team or something? The PE department might have just picked some kids that way.

No one gives a shit about G&T really.

PeaStalks · 30/01/2015 14:47

Yes it is. Do not expect any more than a letter identifying them as G&T.

Quitethewoodsman · 30/01/2015 22:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BackforGood · 30/01/2015 22:42

Yup,

but even within that context, it seems odd that your dds can be 'behind expected level' and 'G&T' in the same subject, unless it is a really poor Department and all the rest of the pupils are more than one level behind where they should be ? Confused

I'd have to e-mail the school to get them to explain that.

Quitethewoodsman · 30/01/2015 22:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MillyMollyMama · 30/01/2015 23:24

A very poor performing secondary modern I know had identified g and t children in music and dance. I was at a concert at the school. There was truly no gifted or remotely talented child on show. It is a label that, sadly, appears to be a bit of a joke in some schools. A similar concert at the local selective school featured children at grade 8 on the piano etc. There does not appear to be any benchmarking of what g and t standards are.

Quitethewoodsman · 30/01/2015 23:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Caronaim · 31/01/2015 01:07

Maggots is the term now in vogue. (More able, gifted and talented) it is the top 10-20% in any class, in any subject, it isn't a joke, but the level does obviously vary.

OP. Pe is a strange one, because it is an academic AND a practial subject. you can be behind academically but forward practically, or viceverse. Music and Drama are the same.

LikeMumUsedToMake · 31/01/2015 08:37

In my DD's school there is extra-curricular work which develops this group in an engaging way. It is much more than an ofsted tick box approach. I guess it depends on the school and the level of interest the staff have

BackforGood · 31/01/2015 12:39

Caronaim - that's hilarious Grin

Has anyone broken it to the parents on the G&T board that their dc are all maggots ?

webwiz · 31/01/2015 15:05

It started as the top 5% nationally which would give children membership of NAGTY (national association of gifted and talented youth) which offered summer schools and other opportunities to meet others of the same ability level. Lots of schools didn't identify any children at this level and so the "top 5/10%" of the schools cohort was introduced to try to make sure that children weren't missing out. I think the original intention was good but has been lost along the way.

ZebraGiraffe · 31/01/2015 15:07

Sadly in a lot of state schools, through little fault of their own, most things are box-ticking for Ofsted. The pressure to fulfill their requirements is immense and leaves heads little choice other than to obsess over it.

morethanpotatoprints · 31/01/2015 16:53

The music G&T scheme is a joke.

I recently saw a concert of the county youth orchestra ranging from aged 10 to 18, the min requirement to join is a gr5 practical exam.
The LA also do this scheme where if students show potential i.e can play more than 3 or 4 notes on an instrument through whole class music lessons they are invited to join the concert as G&T students.
The parents are told their dc are G&T and they mostly believe this, it seems very unfair on them and their dc.
It is great for the kids to participate but why tell them lies, can they not say have shown progress, or expressed an interest or something.
I'm sure there is a similar type of thing for the academic subjects too.

BoneyBackJefferson · 31/01/2015 18:01

It may well be that the children haven't been picked/assessed by the department, in many cases they are put forward by those in an office looking at numbers on a spread sheet.

darlingfascistbullyboy · 31/01/2015 19:44

yeah it's a load of crap imo/ime

dd's school define G&T/exceptionally able as CAT >122 and G&T (top 5% of year) in three or more subjects. In year 9 after being 'identified' two years ago dd finally has the chance of some extension work ... except they only have mentoring for 8 students and there are 11 G&T kids in the year (out of 180, approx 5% overall) so they will pick names out of a hat!

It's ridiculous but I strongly doubt any of the 11 are actually gifted so I've learnt to mostly ignore it. Regarding ks2 levels dd & at least one other on the list hadn't done SATs - the school CAT test in the first week of y7 ... I'm not sure how much they trust the primary school SATs.

(I love maggots though Grin )

darlingfascistbullyboy · 31/01/2015 19:51

they do do something good for the academic kids though - not just the G&T. Each term they have a headmaster's breakfast where the top 10% of boys & 10% of girls (from the previous terms' test levels & reports) are given brioche, hot chocolate & a £10 Amazon* voucher. That's incredibly motivating & there's intense competition to be invited!

(*PTA funded)

TalkinPeace · 31/01/2015 23:11

I received a very nice letter telling me that DD was on the G&T register for RE
Did not stop me opting her out of it at the start of year 10
She thought it was hilarious as we are all atheists

darlingfascistbullyboy · 02/02/2015 09:03

TalkinPeace, what happened when you opted your dd out?

We've just written to school explaining we have major problems with compulsory RE as it is taught at this school & it's got the the point now where we have to withdraw her from RE lessons. I could go into detail but I'm certain I'd get a collective mn raised eyebrow & a 'really?!' so I doubt there's much point ... but so far school are just ignoring us. I'm trying to anticipate how difficult they are going to be Hmm

MillyMollyMama · 02/02/2015 10:23

If your own family view point is strong enough, surely this counteracts a small amount of teaching in school? Why fall out over something you can easily overcome through your own beliefs? . Have strength in what you believe in (and this could be nothing) and teach your children to be the same. Also, there is nothing wrong with children hearing alternative views. You might not like them, but part of growing up is sifting through what you like and what you don't like. Opting out does not aid children develop into rounded human beings.

TalkinPeace · 02/02/2015 13:19

Darling
RE is just an option.
Only those who want to take it do so.
All others sign the opt out declaration at the bottom of the options form.
DS is not taking it either.
Those kids who DO take the GCSE get really good results because they want to be there
The school is by no means unique or exceptional.

PS
I totally support compulsory RE up to year 7 or 8 : its the best way ever invented to create atheists Wink

PeaStalks · 02/02/2015 13:49

Those kids who DO take the GCSE get really good results because they want to be there
This is true, but they are not necessarily religious. Both of my born again atheist DSs got A* at GCSE RE and thoroughly enjoyed it Wink. I think the moral and ethical topics appeal to the teenage mind.

TalkinPeace · 02/02/2015 13:53

Pea
Lots of the kids who do RE are interested in the comparative religion and ethics side of it - not that they believe
but those who really do not want to are allowed to do something else
seems eminently sensible to me

TeenAndTween · 02/02/2015 14:03

Darling Talkin's school seem to make it very easy (almost encouraged?) to drop RE in the GCSE years. Other schools, not so much.

PeaStalks · 02/02/2015 14:29

RE was not even an option at my DC school, those who wanted to do it had to do it in after school classes. The RE "slot" was used for English and Maths revision.

TalkinPeace · 02/02/2015 14:58

Peastalks
Private school I take it - as its illegal for a UK State school to not offer it.