Tonbridge v fab super selective grammar?

[TheBlessedCheesemaker]

A lucky problem to have, I know, but we have ended up with places at our two top choices from the handful of preferences we started with (grammar not yet confirmed but we made the cut, marks-wise, and are easily in catchment). I am really struggling to make the choice betwen them.

When I weigh up the pros and cons there is a hairsbreadth between them, even though they are totally different. And even though they couldn't be more different, the track record for Oxbridge, Russell Group and Ivy League is the same for both, so outcomes very similar. And the parents I talk to from each school don't have a bad word to say about their experiences. My son is talented at sport so will fit easily into Tonbridge, and academically he loves the specific specialisation of the grammar. Even the teachers/HM at the prep can't advise on this one - they send a few kids to both every year and are adamant that DS will love either and do equally well at either, and simply say its a personal preference thing.

In terms of personal preference, it seems to boil down to whether I want to spend a huge amount of money (I can afford it) buying more impressive facilities, smaller classes, a network of friends he is more likely to carry through for life, and possibly connections that open doors. I am definitely not buying a better academic experience as state school possibly has the edge.

I also worry that Tonbridge, then Oxbridge or similar might leave DS with a restricted (and gilded) social circle which I see as a negative, but DH thinks its a positive (he sees social concentration outweighed by international diversity, and worries about the 'local' nature of the grammar which might limit DS's horizons). I do slightly see his point, having seen two DNs in recent years end up on local uni courses because all their friends were going to same uni.

Any advice? Anyone gone through similar? DS, by the way, loves both

"...a network of friends he is more likely to carry through for life, and possibly connections that open doors. I am definitely not buying a better academic experience as state school possibly has the edge."

If the state school has the edge academically and your DS would "love either", I cannot for the life of me see what the problem is.

Unless of course you are being deliberately disingenuous and the very thing you claim you see as a negative is actually what you are prepared to buy; connections, privilege etc.

The examples of your DN are hardly typical - the super-selectives I have experience of are very much focused on Russell Group & Oxbridge. And, incidentally, there's nothing wrong with a local Uni - there's no one size fits all.

First world problems....

Other factors that might be important in your decision:
Is the grammar coed or co ed in the sixth form. Does that appeal? Some boys may let the girls do more of the talking and leading.
Will your DS be self motivated to try out different things outside his comfort zone that may benefit him in the longer term or is he likely to need a bit of pushing? If the latter then Tonbridge might provide some added value.

Tonbridge although boarding is still quite a local school I gather as it is weekly boarding. Most boys there or at selective state schools like Judd won't end up at Oxbridge so that sort of gilded cage is academic driven rather than social.

The Judd is full of prep school boys so it's hardly slumming it on the social front.

Go for the superselective. Save the money you would have spent on fees and play the "state school" card for university entrance. Best of both worlds!

I thought that some boys joined Tonbridge from Judd each year (given Tonbridge doesn't start until Year 9), so you don't have to make a final decision just yet? There's clearly a non-CE route somewhere.

I'm not sure how it is in Kent, but the superselectives in Sutton, South London have really been suffering with changes in how funding has been allocated, especially at 6th form level. They've all had to expand, and they are having to look creatively for access to further funds, by appeals to parents, partnerships/sponsorships from commercial organisations etc. I'm aware that Judd has Livery Company associations so may have decent funding opportunities in place, but it is definitely something that I would look at carefully. It is hard to anticipate what will happen post election and beyond, but it isn't an entirely rosy picture at present.

I'd go to Judd (I presume) for years 7 and 8, and switch to Tonbridge if not 100% happy, in Year 9.

It isn't Judd, but i don't want to clarify which school as it is very local and naming it would out me if anyone who knows me who reads this, because im fairly sure that this year DS is the only child across the four preps in our area to get the choice of both schools.

The specific state school has good funding, but only for its' particular specialisation. Other then that the facilities aren't that great (normal state school offering), so I don't think any funding changes after election would affect it.

This particular school in question takes in 120 pupils a year, of which appx 6 are from an indie background. It is absolutely not a posh, indie-style wealthy school. But it is a great school and very well known for its particular specialisation, but worlds apart from schools like Judd and from the complete Tonbridge experience (especially ref sport, arts, music etc)

I'm not sure if trying out yrs 7&8 in grammar and then switching to Tonbridge if grammar doesn't work out is an option? The Tonbridge offer is dependant on CE so I would have to check - has anyone gone down this type of route? And has anyone had one child in state, one in private who can compare and contrast how important the difference in class sizes and facilities turn out to be in practice?

We don't live in the area, so Judd, skinners not an option as an alternative, by the way.

TheBlessed if you are not in the area does that make it a choice between boarding and day? That adds another dimension to your choice.
IMO small classes work better for the DC who is less confident or less inclined to speak up or ask questions or less articulate. Larger classes do have more background noise as discussed in a previous thread which can be distracting again for some. Facilities are as important as the use that your DS is likely to make of them. If he is a very good sportsman he may actually have more time for higher level sport out of school by the shorter state day and having free weekends. However as I said above some DCs may be less inclined to try different things in a shorter day of the grammar.

Tonbridge definitely have a non CE route, and it is common enough to find boys in the grammars for years 7&8 then moving at year 9. There are 13+ papers for maths and English. Have a look at their website.

My DN who was g&t, esp in Maths said he would have been better off in a selective Grammar like Wilsons specialising in Maths&Computing not in the private school his parents chosen for him (he was on academic scholarship but also had a place in one Grammar school). There would have been more boys like him to compete against, he would have been in the top Maths set etc anyway.

He said in the end it doesn't really mattered as to outcomes where people ended in Unis and workwise. Talented and hard working boys did well regardless of schools and are very successful.

Look at other things like how far commuting is because this counts a lot when your child spends a lot of time on the school bus or public transport and that may limit his time for extra curriculum activities.
The younger DN got a lot out of the school choir in his private school in terms of activities and foreign visits to sing in an Opera in Venice etc.

It is hard to predict what's better in such choice.
Your sone is likely to do well either way.

We had a similar dilemma, DS had a place at a selective private school and one of the best comprehensives in the country. In the end we chose the comprehensive despite being able to afford the private school without sacrifice. The comprehensive sets from day 1, he's in the top set for everything with likeminded bright, interested, generally well behaved children and the results in those sets are generally a straight run of A's and A*'s. Ultimately the outcomes are almost identical as are the backgrounds of the children. The private school was far better musically but DS hasn't a musical bone in his body so that wasn't a consideration. No regrets at all and it's always an option for him to move back into the private sector for 6th form if he wants to but I think it's unlikely as pretty much all the 6th form at his current school leave for RG unis with a great track record of Oxbridge, law & medicine.

Agree with Ladymuck, not personally but have a number of friends who have switched their dses from grammar schools to tonbridge in Y9.

Also for the sixth form, if that would be another option for you to consider.

We've just started boarding at Tonbridge this year. We're amazed at how much the school offers. It seems to be so much more than education and he is thriving. Our DD is also at a local private school which is brilliant but just doesn't seem to offer as much as Tonbridge. I can't compare to grammar but wouldn't hesitate to choose TB over grammar from what I understand.

Thanks all so much for your inputs. We don't live anywhere near Tonbridge at the moment but will rent in the area for a few years to be closer if we choose this above our local grammar option, because the weekly commute won't be doable otherwise.

We are erring on the side of Tonbridge to GCSE and then keeping an open mind for A levels, and my gut feeling is to go with Tonbridge and leave DS at the current prep where he is, rather than 'try and see' with the grammar option.

Your views have really helped consolidate my thoughts and i am maybe over thinking it as - as one poster mentioned - they will probably all get to the same place, whatever route they take.

Many thanks.