peter symonds winchester views?

[lorimeed]

Looking at Peter Symonds for my daughters sixth form but have heard varied things! She's very academic and currently at private school on a academic scholarship with Oxbridge aspirations but I've heard many people struggle making the transition from private to a large college? Views and general opinions please :)

I can't open it up for some reason at the moment but if 41%/ 820 kids has fallen to 25%/ 500 kids in the space of two years, then why? Has there been a massive expansion in that time at the college? Or have I got those figures wrong? It does say 41% in 2011 on the website.

Gentlybenevolent
Of course its not the data from the 2014 A Level results.
Those kids have barely settled in at their colleges and Universities, or for that matter gap years.
They wait a year to see what kids actually do after leaving school and college.
Destinations data has to be a year behind to be vaguely accurate.

Molio
I guess 2011 was the freak year.
That was the year they had the lad who got 7 x A* at A Level (sciences, Maths and computing)
PSC have certainly not slipped back compared with other mega 6th forms, let alone the deadly rivals up the M3 at Farnborough

Absolute bollocks TalkinPeace. Virtually every other school in the country collates its leavers' data the same year. 'Settling in' my Aunt Fanny! The gap year kids get lumped in with the successive year groups usually, which tends to work out fine.

And bollocks again to the second point. A single kid won't skew stats in a college with 2000 kids so that 820 kids in that kid's year going to RG drops to 500. Do the maths TP. He's a single kid. Even if he was given a quad of his own at Cambridge he's still only be one kid. One of my DSs' got 6A* at A2 (mostly sciences not including maths but including humanities) and his results barely caused a ripple. So yes, bollocks. Sorry, but you really don't have a clue.

he'd still, not he's still

Molio
In that case please could you explain why the 2014 leaver data has not been released by the Government.

and please stop trolling me.
I've hidden every other thread I find you on.
This one is about the college my child attends.
Its a shame I had to find your nasty posts on it.

I tend to keep almost exclusively to posting on the education threads TP, so we're bound to cross paths. There is nothing nasty is the least about my posts, nothing at all. I'm free to respond to Brenda on the EP which I know a little about, since five of my kids have done it. And then to comment on your stats - again, utterly legit. What would not be legit is ranting, though that doesn't stop some people on these threads :). Mine is all very reasonable comment and measured, unlike some of your own. it's almost as daft to claim that I'm 'trolling' as it is to claim monopoly of a thread. At least I try only to post about things I know something about - or ask questions about things I don't.

All schools will by now have compiled their leavers' destination data for 2014, but these things take time to filter through the government, there's always a time lag. My point is that it has nothing whatsoever to do with 'settling down'. The leavers' destinations are fixed after results and whether kids drop out after that is irrelevant to that, nothing moves.

I can answer the question TP.

The government don't release yet, though they do have all the data, because they don't see it as a priority.

But they don't re-jig the figures to take into account movement.

It's all a done deal by November. And most schools make their stats public at that point.

Well, we all like to think (well, on MN we do, anyway) that we've made the best choice we can for our dcs, and someone saying the place is crappy (nay, full of druggies - and thick ones at that) is bound to raise hackles.

The fact is, as TalkinPeace says, is that Peter Symonds is a) not really selective and b) you can take various non-A Level qualifications and therefore you are bound to get students who are not going to go to Oxbridge or a Russell Group university in a decade of Sundays. The acid test would be how many go on to these institutions who realistically aspire or are expected to do so.

I don't really understand why destinations lists have assumed such gigantic importance in the minds of - MN? The media?

Our school makes a point of mentioning the number of vet/med places every year and I really couldn't care less, neither of my girls want to do vet/med and I don't, personally, believe that vet/med is the ne plus ultra of educational aspiration.

I've also never 'bought' the idea that 'RG' is an automatic guarantor of quality or esteem either - this is partly because I am old, and partly because I am tangentially involved in recruitment not just in my firm (internationally) but also in a wider sense, in my profession - and I know that all RG universities are not equal and that there is not a consistent parity of esteem allocated across the board.

As far as the argument between PSC and St Swithuns goes - PSC is widely and well reputed, beyond the boundarie of Hampshire. St Swithuns not so much.

Whilst I agree that leavers' destinations are a blunt measure, I think they do provide a certain insight into a school.

For example, if a school have not sent anyone to Oxbridge, ever, I'm asking why. If the universities are virtually all non-RG (and I do take the point about all RGs not being equal), I'm also asking why.

Oh and I love to check out the leavers' destinations at my own DC's schools - but that's pure nosiness .

Both viewpoints are valid.

I guess many, many parents don't look at sixth form destination lists when their dc are yr 5/6, except for the most ambitious.

Personally, although we chose ds's school above everything for the pastoral care, I also found it interesting and reassuring to see equal pride being shown towards the vet/med kids, Oxbridge, RG, vocational types (nursing etc) and the great success rate they also have at getting into music, art and drama schools. Shows to me that the reputation for "all-rounded ness" is, indeed, true.

There are certainly RGs and RGs and I find the RG obsession on MN pretty funny. RG guarantees nothing in terms of university experience, education or a job. And although Oxford and Cambridge are both RG, it's a bit misleading to say X% of leavers get offers from RG and Oxbridge combined, since only around 50 kids/ 2.5% get to Oxbridge each year from PS. Mind you it's not only PS which does that on its website, everyone's at it. I only picked up the point that 25% isn't great really for RG, given the breadth of quality at RG universities, that's all. Then I wondered about the 41% in 2011 compared to the 25% cited by TP. That's much more interesting but probably has a very simple and dull explanation. But I'd be interested to know what it is, because no cohort blips can alter statistics that radically. But I didn't mean to make a great big thing about destinations at all. And there's no doubt the college has a good reputation, few people would quarrel with that.

Any school that is already counting gap year students as having proceeded to a university when they may not take up that place are being dishonest with parents.

Symonds puts as much effort into DDs friend who is doing one A level and two BTECs as it does those predicted to go to Top200 Universities.

I fully admit that I did not really look at the destinations when DD chose PSC over the other colleges.
We looked at where had the right emphasis at A level and then where she would be happy for 2 years.
DS is currently making up his mind and his criteria are utterly different than hers much more interest in rugby and distance to the chip shop

Destinations do seem to be a big thing for a lot of people now though, and it is really interesting, in one sense, if you have a child in or about to enter that process, or if you are involved in recruitment or associated with a university - but I do wonder how much this really tells us about anything given that the biggest factor in where someone goes is their own preference.

My current excuse is that I'd rather be sitting about on the internet wondering about this than funeral planning or doing probate related admin. I don't actually expect to be vouchsafed some hitherto unsuspected nugget of information that will banish my worries and concerns about my kids' future educational aspirations.

TP - my DS will have to make up his mind next year and (assuming he actually has a choice) I suspect his choice will be influenced less by the glittering list of destinations from our just round the corner 6th form/FE college, which is state of the art and has a glowing reputation, and more by the sheer size of the place and the amount of personal responsibility that is necessarily placed on the students. Unless he changes markedly in the next 12 months, he thinks that a less glittering, less reputed, smaller and better geared for SEN issues 6th form will suit him better. It's not as close, the destinations aren't so good - but he's more likely to be comfortable there, which is the main thing. Isn't it?

Gently
It's not as close, the destinations aren't so good - but he's more likely to be comfortable there, which is the main thing. Isn't it?
Yes - Utterly.
Kids who are not happy cannot thrive.
Happy kids with supportive parents can achieve more than expected.

The thing with destinations is that it ignores the fact that lots of our kids will end up in jobs that have not been invented yet.

'gap year kids get lumped in with the successive year groups usually' =. for example, those taking gap years having taken A2s in 2013 are counted in with the 2014 leavers, not the 2013 leavers. So totally sensible and not dishonest in any way at all - in what way is that dishonest TP?

I agree, Draylon. All I know is a bit about ds's classes at PS.

But I do think PS do let you do an A Level with a B in quite a few cases, even facilitating ones.

As for being selective, I think it's selective as far as most people in the Winchester area are fairly, erm, well-heeled. Ds says that there are some vair posh kids in his classes. And, if the OP is still hanging around, they come from Winchester comps.

I can clarify a couple of points here.
EP has been offered at PSC for quite a while now - at least for the past five years.
This year's A2 cohort will be the last doing GS.
There are facilitating subjects at PSC that don't require an A at GCSE - MFL, English (I think), History. Some are even fine with a C. The college does differentiation really well.

Talkinpeace can vouch for me as a reliable source.

Lemonsole
I certainly can : your knowledge is as up to date as it gets.

Brenda
The Peter Symonds 'Catchment' is huge - much bigger than just Winchester.
DD has friends from Fareham, Southampton, all the villages in between, right up to Alton and across to Andover.
The bus map alone makes that clear.

But yes, there are some incredibly well heeled and well educated people there.
In part because its the science / academic college for the area. Non academic kids have a fabulous range of colleges to choose from with a huge range of specialisations.

With a DD in y11 (who probably won't go to PS but has an offer from there), I concur with Lemonsole. Neither English nor MFL require an A at GCSE.

Also, in general you need to show capability at GCSE level in the subject you wish to do at A level. (In particular I can't see how someone scraping a B in science or maths would cope with A level.)

By 'not selective' people are meaning they aren't picking the kids with the straight As at GCSE over and above those with say 5Bs and 5Cs.

Entry requirements for AS/A2 courses are not some arbitrary letter plucked from the sky, but are based on what staff learn over the years about how low you can go at GCSE before a student is unlikely to pass the AS. In MFL the B grade GCSE students have an extra lesson per week. A student with a C would be very, very unlikely to pass AS.

There are some selective 6th form colleges, where minimum entry grades are higher, and interviews count - but none in Hants.