Behaviour at Secondary School -Y7- is this usual low level disruption or more?

[Teabaglady]

I am getting quite concerned about behaviour at my DS's secondary school - Y7. Apparently lots of swearing at teachers, turning up late to lessons on purpose, using phones in class to play games, imessage children in other classes, or to play out noises like foghorns but more often swear words or offensive phrases. Some of the forms are now being mixed up again and some children have been excluded (temporarily) so teachers are on to the behaviour but it's still on-going. There also seems to be a culture of playing games on phones/tablets at lunch rather than 'playing' including apparently playing GTA ( these are 11 year old kids). Is this what secondary school is like? Am i just out of touch?

It's not like that at the one I teach at. It was like that at the crap school I did a PGCE placement at.

I'd be looking at other options if possible.

Sounds awful!! Can you move school?

No! Phones in lessons get confiscated and detention given. I doubt much swearing is tolerated either. They talk too much, but that's mostly it.

Definitely not normal - my three are at three different schools and phones are not allowed to be switched on during the school day. Swearing at teachers is punished severely (ds got suspended for 2 weeks when he lost his temper). Your son's school sounds like a very scary place to be an 11 year old

Not normal

Not normal, although playing on phones at lunchtime rather than being outside normal in this weather. Behaviour sounds awful though.

None of these things would be tolerated at DS1 and DS2's school. It must be very difficult to learn with all that going on in lessons.

Nope, not at the secondary school my eldest two go to- no phones allowed at school!
Our local secondary do allow phones outside of lessons and at lunch, but the behaviour there is good and not like you describe.
Do you have another school that your son could move to?

No, definitely not normal at dd's - very average, I think - school. She came home bursting with news a few weeks before Christmas (yr 8) because a girl in her friend's class had told the supply teacher to fuck off, walked out of class, and subsequently been excluded - it was definitely massive excitement all round

At DS1's school phones have to be handed into the office and collected at the end of the day. If they aren't and they go off in a lesson, the phone is confiscated for 7 days. It's a bit of a faff but it avoids all the problems you mention. You might suggest to the school that they try it for a trial period just to see what the impact is.

It avoids the problems with phones, I mean. The swearing and lateness are another issue and definitely not normal!

Teabag:

This is just the type of low level disruption that OFSTED feel seriously harms educational progress: www.gov.uk/government/publications/below-the-radar-low-level-disruption-in-the-countrys-classrooms

I'm not sure what your situation is - but you can directly raise this with the HT and if no joy there, I presume the next stop is the school governors.

If you can go in with several parents - all the better - as it tends to be easier for a Head to ignore one voice, but more problematic when a group of parents are saying 'Hey, this is worrying us and needs resolution.'

I don't think this is something that can be easily solved but some simple steps - but the link to the report above may give you some ideas to suggest as solutions at your school.

What I will say is that DD1 (also Y7) is at a comprehensive school where they are almost detention happy. They've cracked down hard on the kids - even giving detentions if parents don't sign planners or pupils forget ingredients for cooking. It seems a bit draconian - but on the other hand it's clear they're settled, and cracking on with work, which is clearly moving at quite a clip.

The Deputy Head is intimidating and big on good behaviour/ uniform code/ etc... - and I think that helps a lot.

Nope not at all.

Got shot at for saying on a grammar thread that the kids would take advantage of weak teachers and muck around but would still nail the learning objectives etc and the " disruption" there was chatting, doodling ( on each other arms often- why?) and asking silly questions to try to tie the teacher in knots if they took the bait.... but phones are never seen in class - they'd be confiscated (unless specifically allowed eg in art they can use headphones whilst working sometimes).

Look at moving school ...

Yup kids will do this in any school if they get the chance and get away with it. They clearly are at this school and it's not normal.

Some of that was quite normal in my schools in the 70s. Not sassing teachers to their faces, though. We weren't that rude. We had ppl reading newspaper in uni lectures, so modern equivalent will be phone game players, I'm sure that still happens.

Playing on phones at lunch is normal, whatever apps they have on there.

DS's secondary is in a rural area, so they are allowed to take phones to school. The majority use school transport so they need phones so they can contact home if there are problems with their journey. However, they are not to use them until school has finished. If a child uses a phone during the school day it is confiscated and has to be collected by a parent.

Not normal at the school I teach at. Swearing at another pupil or at a teacher would be punished. Phones may be used at times in class for class work but at all other times including break and lunch need to be switched off and out of sight. Phone being used to disrupt a class would mean removal of pupil from room and phone from pupil and parents would be called. Yes, you do get disruptive pupils, but if you have a strong behaviour policy the disruption will be minimised.
Bear in mind however that children do exaggerate and wild rumours sometimes appear from nowhere and sweep around schools. It may not be as bad as it sounds.

Nearly all the behaviour you describe would result in a detention and if repeated I'm not sure, as it just doesn't happen as DS's school. He takes a phone in as we are rural and the council mini bus that gets him to and from school is not fully reliable. But if he used it during the school day and was spotted it would be confiscated. I'd be looking at other options if I was you, it's difficult even for a motivated child to do well in that environment.

Phones allowed here but if seen or heard in lessons they are confiscated. Late to class = detention. Swearing at staff happens less than once in a blue moon and would be suspension. Strikes me senior management are not up to the job.

Not normal. What is the school's behaviour policy like and what did their last OFSTED say about behaviour?

Definitely not normal in the perfectly normal comp my DDs go to. Phones are only allowed on at break and lunch, if they go off in lessons they are confiscated and a letter sent home. Swearing = exclusion. They aren't draconian at all, they just expect good behaviour. Sounds like your school is falling down on the job and the teachers are badly supported.

Strikes me senior management are not up to the job.

Exactly this. If a pupil swore at me and was not suspended I would feel senior management were undermining my ability to do my job properly. If a pupil misbehaved to a level where I needed to send them out of class to ensure the education of others was not disrupted then I would expect a mechanism to be in place to enable that to happen (in our school they are taken away by a senior member of staff). People talk about 'weak teachers' but no teacher can manage their classroom effectively without a strong and consistently implemented schoolwide behaviour policy.

This is not the norm where I teach (state comp) and a lot of what you describe would be considered worse that low level disruption.

I would second the idea of contacting the school about it and also be looking at what the alternatives were.

Thanks for all the comments - I am glad to hear that this behaviour is not to be expected. The teachers are trying to tackle the behaviour , there are detentions etc but I just think some of the kids don't care and the phones/ tablets are IMHO are just another distraction ( so glad I am not a teacher)
I am going to try and get more details from my DS and make sure he is not exaggerating and then contact the HOY next week