I'm a weeny bit cross that there hasn't been a SW/W London Independent schools thread this yr.

[SonorousBip]

Every blinking year there is one - and I read, and nod, and note. Sometimes they go on for months and pages. But this year, when I'm actually doing it - pah, not a sausage.

If anyone wants to do a last minute SPGS/Latymer/Godolphin/ KGS/LEH/WHS/PHS thread, please do! (disclaimer - I'm not doing all of those.). But views welcome. Because I've got several days to form my final views

Sorry, that wasn't meant to sound harsh! In an ideal world no kids would be prepped for exams and they would be done on raw talent but sadly that isn't the case and it sounds like even the schools that were possible to get offers from without being tutored to within an inch of your life are no longer as "easy" to get into.

I agree its sad. It seems that the academics are getting increasingly competitive even from schools with a history of being gentler. Hard on parents who sit their kids for exams expecting one thing, and getting another.

But again...we really don't know how the schools are choosing the kids! It may be on interview...

Sonorous, DS had his interview at LU a couple of years ago. He was given a choice of subjects to choose two out of, and then asked questions about those subjects. One was very tricky and demanded lateral thinking.
I think it's good for your child to be aware of what's going on in the world, broadly speaking, as it may come up. LU is interested in very individual kids, opinionated, not necessarily followers or obedient to the letter. There is a real mix in DS year from more sporty types to hardcore intellectuals and scientists. What they all have in common is that they speak their mind. I am told some classes spontaneously turn into lively unstopable debates. DS really likes it.

Good luck with the interview!

If the standard gets higher and higher, what happens to the kids who are not so academic? Where do they go? Like my daughter for example....

Surely there's an opportunity for an entrepreneur to open a somewhat gentler school in West London/Richmond? Lord you'd clean up!

What about Ibstock Place, is that seen as a reasonably less academic option in Southwest London?

If the average standard of the exams gets higher and everything else remains the same then there is no change as the normal distribution of results will just shift to lower pass marks.

If the average standard of the entrant gets higher and everything else remains the same then the normal distribution of results will shift higher and if you want an offer them the individual would also need to shift their performance higher.

At the moment it looks like the level of some exams has been increased but this shouldn't be affecting the outcome for anyone.

Ibstock Place is now higher in the Times league tables than Kingston Grammar so I'm not sure it's the easier option any more. This year seems to be tough. I just don't know if there are many many more children sitting the exams, or that there are more children trying for 6 or 8 schools. Our DC are older. The truth is that once the dust settled, we found that most (all but one) children in DC's class were happy at the school they got into, and most parents had either rewritten history and were now passionately pro the school which accepted their child, or admitted the schools which rejected them had got it right. With time comes perspective? Not sure. Good luck to all of you.

Lord...Ibstock higher than KG? Wow. That's telling.

Be interesting to see what happens with wait lists. With so many kids doing so many exams I wonder if offers will be 'spread' or if the same top % will get offers from everywhere.

Groan...what a nightmare.

Just to add to the gobsmackedness - 10? 10! 10? Honestly that would be a full-time job just to get them there. We had three, which involved my husband taking him and being late for work and then me gnawing my fingers and picking him up. Because it was all a midday pick-up and he didn't go back to school (lightweight), then I got a lot less work done (am self-employed).

The interviews involve the same sort of time commitment. If there were ten of them… I honestly don't think there are ten schools that my children could realistically travel to from here (I think things are different in SW London though). What is the rationale? Surely the parents don't think their child is only likely to be offered one of them? Although the poor mites will be so knackered that perhaps that is the case.

I'm sure wheresthebeach you're right - the same kids will get offered everywhere. I hope they have the grace to release places quickly. Is there some kudos in being able to say 'little Johnny was offered places at 10 schools' or do you think it's always fear that's driving this?

God even the thought of that many open days scares me. We only visited each of the ones we applied for the once.

Personally I think it's fear for the majority. Kinda 'we have to get somewhere' attitude so spreading the net very wide. Personally I think there are some quite good state options in SW London esp as RPA now on the up.

I wonder if it just means the kids are exhausted with the pressure (6-8 days of exams at 10 is insane IMHO). It just fuels itself...esp as SHS and KGS seem to be harder to get into this year.

I agree that it's ridiculous to put DCs through that! I know one very bright and highly tutored (since forever!) DC who is pretty much guaranteed to get offers from everywhere (unless some rumble the tutoring, but even then the DC is also naturally bright) and who has applied to every single one of the top day schools that are possible from our area. The parents have said all along that several of them are out of the question due to distance, so one has to assume it's purely for glory The poor child looks exhausted, has been sick a lot recently and the parents too look terrible. Why, just why???

Definitely driven by fear and desperation.

God awful that fear. I feel we're really lucky to have had a great experience of the state sector at primary so know that the secondary we've put at the top of the CAF will probably be great too. Hence only applying for the three schools

a) within three miles
b) that offer something potentially special

I know parents coming from the private sector who move out of London or send their kids to boarding schools rather than 'risk' state secondaries. Also those with kids in state primaries who don't have adequate secondaries in their areas.

I also know kids who haven't got places anywhere, but they usually have only applied to 2-3.

Are there consortia in SW/W London? Round here the girls' schools are in two groups so the girls can do two exams but apply for loads of schools through that?

I don't know what the answer is, but applying for anything over 6 does seem to be horrific for parents and children, and probably annoying for schools.

Few observations.

I don't know anyone doing 10, and I don't think that is anything other than completely crazy. 6 and 7 are the most I have heard of, but even those are outliers; most people in DD's class are doing 3-4. I think a couple may have done grammar as well, which of course were months earlier. I suspect references to 10 must throw in a couple of grammars as well (but even so...).

We have to fill in a form for the head, showing where we are applying for so she can match it up with reference requests etc. Only room for 4 places on the form - I'm pretty sure if you put down 6 or 7 she would be on the phone saying "why"?? For prep school heads, selection of the right few schools is part of their value add. And it mostly works quite well. You have a chat in Y5 as to where the realistic range is for your child (they do CAT tests twice a year, so the school has a good idea of ability), you get the hump as to how under-appreciated your child genius is, you get over youself, and go and look round the schools the head thinks would work well, apply there, mostly get in. I'm guessing without that external direction (or without faith in it), I can see why people are a lot more scatter gun.

My other observation is that the dc we know of doing a lot of schools tend to be oldest children. I can see how that would happen. If you have an older child already at a school I think you gravitate to that school or in that direction. Of DD's friends, a lot seem to be applying to the school they have a sibling at - the choice for second or subsequent children tends to be less of a blank page, I think. (DH and I mused if we had the guts only to apply for 1. We didn't!)

I doubt a Prep school Head would send out 10 school reports if asked.

From a state primary we were charged £35 for a school report and needed four. However as long as the receiving school was happy to receive the standard (photocopied) report that our Head sent then we were only charged once and not 4x £35 which seemed fair enough.

I felt four was absolute max. Older DS1 sat two, five years ago when life seemed more simple, was offered both and took one.

Interesting.

We get no input from the school at all - not their job. No charges for reports, no limit on the number of forms. They say best to limit to 3 but that's all. They will not recommend schools so it's up to the parents.

Lack of input from school means that the playground is the place information is shared and discussed. Lots of 'oh ABC is lovely - you must go see it'. I think it whips it all up into a frenzy of 'so many lovely schools' and people have ended up going a bit over the top.

Farewell I'm afraid no consortium. Every school has an exam and an interview. At our school its mainly the academically high middle kids doing tonnes and those going for scholarships of sorts.

Hi all. Well we all know that there's far more to a school than their A-level results (distance / travel times a huge one for us)! Nevertheless, its the A-level results that the unis will be looking at.

The following A-level results relate to the percentage of A*/A grades (out of total number of A-level passes) for individual schools in 2014 as published on their own websites.

Results obviously vary year to year, but nevertheless may give an indication as to the effectiveness of selection criteria, quality of teaching, "hothousing" etc in particular schools. At the very least, they are an indication of the academic cohort a dc would be among if they were aged 17/18 and in a given school at this time.

Surbiton High (no figure published, but website states "almost 50%")

Wimbledon High (50%)

Putney High (53.7%)

Ibstock Place (61%)

Kingston Grammar (63%)

JAGS (69%) - bit of a "dip year" though - usually high 70%
range

Hampton (71.9%)

Alleyns (72%)

LEH (73%)

Latymer Upper (77%)

St Paul's Girls (91%)

KCS not included as they do IB.

May be of relevance to anyone considering schools at this time?

KCS do both IB and A Levels although this hasn't filtered through to results yet as they only reintroduced A Levels a couple of years ago.

If you are looking at girls the average IB score last year was 44 out of a possible max of 45. That equates to 700+ UCAS points. An A* at A level gets you 140 UCAS point.

I've just had a look at Emanuel, and made it 35% A*/A.

S&CHS have very small numbers of A level entries (51) and an A*/A rate of 37%

zebedee I suspect everybody posting here knows those figures by heart

But don't those figures just prove that all these schools will enable bright pupils to get A/A*. Those league tables just reflect selectivity, and some pretty small differences in academic results. In other parts of the country all these schools would be regarded as amazing, it is just that we have such a concentration it is easy to get carried away making comparisons.

What they don't tell you is which school will enable your DC to do best, some might thrive at St Paul's, some might do better at a less selective school.

And universities manifestly are not influenced by which of these schools a pupil goes to, I refer you to all the angst laden threads by parents wondering why Oxbridge admission success is not better at the most selective schools (latest was on Westminster). What they are interested in, pretty exclusively, is predicted grades /achievement at AS (not relevent in future) and for Oxbridge, convincing them on the day at interview that you are the best candidate for their places, possibly from these schools, a higher bar than if they go to local state schools (not because they favour state school applicants, just that with that level of support etc they are less likely to make allowances). So all that extra curricular, though great in teaching all sorts of life skills and providing great experiences doesn't much matter either, most students tag it on in a sentence at the end of the Personal statement (which may not get read unless there are flags to indicate disadvantage)

And as I highlighted earlier you are not comparing like with like on A level results. Some of these schools have small A level cohorts with maybe only a couple doing a particular subject, good may be for spoon feeding but not for enabling good discussions and preparing for uni life.

As Needmore highlighted upthread what you realise having gone through this to the end is that what matters is finding the school that your DC will be happy in and best able to develop the qualities of confidence, resilience etc that will enable them to take advantage of the opportunities on offer at all these schools to enable your DC to achieve their potential and realise their ambitions.

Wow -interesting re Putney High. Their GCSEs are very good, so what is happening at A level?
Maybe its the case now that they lose some very strong candidates to co-ed 6th forms like KCS?

Agree with poison and needsmore, this process (no matter how painful) is to match the right school culture with DD, as I see her at 11. I'd hate for her to exit at 18 stating she got the right results but had a dreadful time getting there. But I cannot control her journey, just support with the selection process. Whilst the school is one element, what friendships, teacher influences, extra curricular enrichment etc she gets all forms part of it, which is not reflected in the league tables.

I think the PHS figures were an anomaly. That's the trouble with looking at just one year.

Also, it tends to reflect how selective the school was 7 years ago. I looked at the figures for two schools that used to be considered as 'fallback' options and yes, they came out rather lower. But I'd be ready to bet they'll look quite different in 2022 (when this September's intake takes their A levels) as they are now being much more actively chosen and (by sheer weight of numbers applying) are becoming more selective.

Yes, as Another says, if you look at the results on the PHS website you can see that the 2014 figures were an anomaly. The figure every other year is around 75% A*/A so it's definitely misleading to look at one year in isolation.

Yes, the results (%A*/A) can be a reasonable and helpful proxy for intake selectivity - I guess intake performance = GCSE performance if you make the huge assumptions that the schools you are considering
(1) are equally good at educating the kids they take, and
(2) have similar proportions of offers being rejected, and

(3) relative selectivity is unchanged since the intake of the GCSE class.
Given the movements (including potentially of our DC) before A-levels and a longer time lag (Anothernewt's point), I prefer the GCSE stats.

Regarding number of schools sat discussed earlier: I will confess we did 7 last year... (ducking flames) Why? As Sonorous and others said:

• We live in (NW) London - many schools within reasonable reach
• DD at state primary - so no prep head inputs / guidance or CAT tests
• Not happy with likely possible state secondaries
• Very uncertain how DD would perform in the tests (quite bright but slow; would she get through?), with little tutoring and test prep
• Also uncertain how (quiet) DD would "perform" at interview
• Did not want everything to ride on one single test day
• Benefited from North London consortium; managed to sit one test that covered 4 different schools in one go
• Zero prior knowledge of private schools in our family - so hard to judge how difficult it would be to get offers (uncertainty again)
• Viewed visits to schools (interviews where we got them etc) as a way to continue to learn about the (for us) new landscape of schools, and as useful inputs for our eventual judgement on the schools if we got a choice
• The cost is dwarfed by the subsequent fees - which can also vary a lot
• Impressed with several schools; a perceived 10-20% chance felt worth going for
• Different schools might emphasise different factors for offer decisions

I am not justifying 7, only explaining. With hindsight we could have pruned 1 school off the bottom and 1-2 off the top of the range in terms of selectivity. We got two offers and two waitlists, with one of the waitlists converting to an offer and accepted). At least we had the sense to skip the elite / top 15-20 schools...

Good luck to everybody! I encourage you to take waiting lists seriously and not be offended - I think there will be a lot of movement on them for many schools this year, and our experience is that registrars really want to have good, keen, decisive candidates available not only in late February and early March (when cascades of rejected offers hit the schools; a domino effect that triggers offers) but also sometimes later.

Happy not to go through the stress this year! (DD2 in a couple of years).
Sorry for the length of this message - now back to lurking / working.