Secondary School in Bromley

[wishtobuyadog]

Hello. I'm very new to this forum.
I would appreciate if you could give me some information or knowledge about Bromley.

We live in Purley and have two daughters Y3 and Reception.
We've started thinking of moving for a good secondary school.
My husband commutes to Canary Wharf.
Thinking of these two, we thought Bromley area is ideal.

We would like to move somewhere nice area with a good primary and a secondary school.

Which part of Bromley borough is nice to live?

My DD1 is doing well. She is in top table in all subjects so far so I'm thinking of a grammar school but even if she is tutored, it doesn't mean that she could get a place so I would like to know a good non selective Secondary School too.
Obviously if we decided to move this year, these two girls are still in Primary School so I would like to know about primary schools too.

Regarding commuting to London, I presume almost all train stations in Bromley borough goes to London bridge in a reasonable time.

Thank you very much in advance.

Pooka - Thank you so much for your reply and info.
We don't know anything about Bromley borough and we don't have any friends live there so I really appreciate your information.

We were amazed by Bullers Wood school website.
We thought it was a private school.
I like schools that have some discipline so I'm happy with what you said.

1.6 miles catchment doesn't sound unusual to me.
At least it's not within 1 mile catchment so I'm happy to hear that.

Is there any area I should avoid?
Rough or noisy area etc?

I live in the Sundridge Park/Bromley North area at the moment and as a commuter I would recommend you avoid moving here (and anywhere on the Southeastern rail network) for as long as you can if your DH has to commute via London Bridge. The Thameslink project means that trains to Waterloo East and Charing Cross are not stopping at London Bridge until August 2016 and, after that, trains to Cannon Street won't stop there until some time in 2018 I think. If you can put off buying here for a couple of years at least you might be able to avoid the worst of it. It only started yesterday but London Bridge station has been chaos apparently (I have avoided it for two days by going to CX and walking but that is just putting off the inevitable).

Schools-wise, we are still in Primary so not so sure about secondaries but Bullers Wood is where I would hope DD will go assuming everything remains equal (that it stays a good school and we are still within catchment I mean). Otherwise, if she is academic there is Newstead Woods or move to be near a decent grammar. I think personally Bromley is too far for a child to travel to most of the grammars in Bexley/Kent (though I know many people will disagree) and you would be better off moving to somewhere in Kent itself, like Tunbridge Wells say, if that is your ultimate aim.

As to good primaries, most are good in Bromley really but many are heavily oversubscribed. There are a few "blackspots" where you are out of (effective) catchment for all primary schools (the Palace Estate in Bromley is one I think). HOwever, this may not be releant when you are not applying for a Reception place. So when you find somewhere you would like to live, it is worth contacting the LA and finding out what the situation is likely to be with regard to the nearby schools before committing yourself. Good ones in Bromley include Parish, Valley, Bickley, Raglan, St Josephs (RC though), Scotts Park (not a great OFSTED but friends are happy with it) and St George's (used to not be great but is very much on the up with a new Head I believe). There is also a new bilingual French-English free school, La Fontaine Academy, which opened this year. It has had a lot of good reviews I think, but I know nothing about it personally nor anyone going there.

Good luck with your decision - it is a nice area to live.

I have no idea about a canary wharf commute by the way - though I do know people who commute to there from chislehurst and petts wood stations - prob via London bridge I suppose.

I don't know of any areas within the bullers catchment that would be considered rough. Re: primaries, the palace estate black spot was partly as a result of st George's less successful years - people tried to avoid, bickley primary single form entry and so limited places and so on. Now st George's is becoming popular because of fantastic results last year and a very dynamic head I'm sure it's catchment will shrink - this year was over a mile I think and it used to be the school with excess places that the LEA would offer to children with none of their preferences. We're at a not especially sought after primary towards petts wood, but like it very much - all the dcs have done/are doing v well.

Like frozenatemydaughter we felt that the so called advantages of say Chis & Sid (nearest bexley grammar) were massively outweighed by the ability of the dcs to walk to school and not have long commute. Their results aren't that great for a selective school IMO.

Kent grammars too too far away.

Actually, thinking about it from Bromley, and particularly from Hayes, couldn't your DH change at Lewisham for the DLR rather than going into LBR? I may be talking rubbish but that might be a more pleasant and realistic option whilst the LBR works are ongoing. (I am not sure how many trains from Sundridge Park/Elmstead Woods/Chislehurst etc stop at Lewisham round rush hour though - you would have to check that).

FrozenAteMyDaughter - Thank you very much for your info about Thameslink Project. My husband commutes from Purley to LB and he told me about the chaos at the station and also I saw on the news so I knew about the problem but I didn't know about the Southeastern Rail Network.

Actually my husband has mentioned about DLR from Lewisham.
I don't know how pleasant journey it would be but he sometimes has to take DLR from Canary Wharf.
He did it yesterday as there was some problems and no Jubilee Line when he left office.

I think even if we put our house on the market this Spring, after the General Election, I don't think we could move to a new place so quickly anyway (I'm pretty sure that we would have a chain) so August 2016 might be OK.

Pooka - Thank you again about the area info around Bullers Wood.
It would sound very offensive to some people but we would like to avoid council estate area.
We are happy to mix with any kind of nationality but we would like to avoid rough people whom might cause anti social behaviour etc.

Contacting LA before committing ourselves sounds good idea.

I like Bullers Wood so far. It's also good transport link to London for my husband but I think we will look around Langley Park and Hays area too as there will be a slightly more house choices for us.

Thank you very very much for your help!

Yes, agree - you've said it looks like a private school. But it definitely isn't - it's a decent state school.

Also agree re parts of the Crays and New eltham. I don't know mottingham. Certainly the first two areas would be out of catchment for BW.

I'm very keen on Hayes generally, and the secondary school is excellent. If we weren't happy with Ravensbourne as school for the boys, then we would have moved to try and be in the Hayes catchment. I'm keen on mixed schools really, and it's my one reservation about BW.

I'd steer clear of West Kent unless you are guaranteed grammar places for your children, which you never are.

Yes, of course Taffeta is right. With any grammar school area the big problem comes for children who miss out on a grammar place. The other schools in those areas then mainly take only the children who missed grammar places and whose parents can't afford/don't want to put them into private schools (as many parents will do as a second choice).

Whilst many children do develop academically later than 10/11, of course, it does affect how good those schools are and, of course, people's perceptions of them as last resorts, which is probably the worst aspect.

So in that sense Bromley (including Hayes and West Wickham) is a good compromise because you are just about within striking distance of grammar schools if you want them, but also have the options of the super-selectives (Newstead for girls as you know) and several good comprehensives with a genuinely mixed intake.

Taffeta and FrozenAteMyDaughter - Thank you very much for your comment.

I totally agree with you two.
I wouldn't wan to be in the position where you had to send your child to a private school.
I would like to treat my girls equally so we would end up sending two children in a Private School, which would be stretching us.

Also I believe that many children develop academically after 10/11 so I'd like to be in the catchment of a good non selective school.

We will try to visit these schools (Bullers Wood, Langley Park for Girls and Hayes) open day this year and see what they like.

Thank you so much for all these information and comments.
This is the very first time to use this forum and received all these information from all of you.
I really appreciate. Thank you!

Would definatley recommend hayes and Langley. Both very small catchment under 2 mile. Langley park area for houses are quite expensive so maybe worth looking at west wickham. Some parts of west wickham are catchment for both schools.

The major problem you will find is primary schools are heavily oversubscribed and mostly full so if you are thinking of transferring your daughters to another primary school you may find it hard getting one or even both in the same school in this area or the surrounding areas such as hayes, beckenham and central bromley.

Beckenham is also a nice place to live but only a small section is catchment for Langley

Miller599 - Thank you very much for your comment.

Yes. Our problem would be finding a primary school for my girls.
I've been reading people's comments and most primary schools in Bromley seem to be good so I wouldn't mind any school BUT I would definitely mind if they were allocated to a different school.

I personally think secondary school is more important than primary school so as long as we could secure the secondary school place, I mean buying a house within a definite catchment area, I guess I would have to go through this awkward primary school run (dropping off two different schools).
I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one mother facing this problem so I hope I could do it.

I just checked the train line and from Eden Park, West Wickham and Hayes go to London Bridge.
It takes longer from Elmstead Wood and Chislehurst but one hour commuting in total is normal so he should be fine.

I suppose West Wickham area has more shops compare to Elmstead Wood or Chislehurst.
As long as there is a reasonable size supermarket near by, I would be happy.
It doesn't sound glamorous but I do like a big supermarket.

Oh there are a few supermarkets around. I alternate between big sainsburys at locksbottom and lovely waitrose at bromley south. Massive tesco hear orpington station.

yes definitely possible to change at Lewisham for DLR to Canary Wharf...I wouldn't say that the current train upheavals are enough of a reason not to move to the area at all (and I do the commute!).

Another recommendation for Hayes. My children both went to Hayes primary, and are now at Hayes (secondary). Lovely area, nice village feel around Old Hayes, which is where the George pub is. I shop in Sainsbury's in Locksbottom or Waitrose, and there's going to be a new cinema and leisure complex in Bromley south in the next few years. Hayes is a very good school, both DC's have done very well indeed there.

Pooka - Again, Thank you very much for your info. Sainsbury's, Waitrose and massive Tesco sounds good. I do on-line shopping but sometimes I'd like to see things with my own eyes.

airedailleurs - Changing at Lewisham for DLR to get to Canry Wharf is definite route then. It's good to hear from the commuter. I'll tell my husband.

Ihatemytoes - Thank you very much for your comment. We drove around the area a couple of weeks ago and my husband really liked the look of the pub. It was tempting but we didn't go in.

Next thing I would like to do is walking around these areas (we were going to do it yesterday but the weather wasn't good so we stayed in) and also visiting schools on their next open day and see what they like.

Thank you very much for your info and comment!

I love Hayes. The George is a good pub, and it has a villagey feel in old Hayes, with really good and broad range of shops in station approach.

The schools are great too - have heard only good things about primary and secondary.

All the schools mentioned have great reputations and I'm sure you'd be fine at any. I think you're right to visit them all though. We opted for west Wickham area as we wanted to be that side of Bromley vs Orpington etc. and Langley schools sounded brilliant for secondary. Its also a (teeny!) bit closer to London than Hayes with a few more local amenities and bus connections. Both are pretty quiet, residential areas really. Commute to canary wharf via lewisham is fine - and preferable to going via London bridge IMO, regardless of the current rail disruptions. You just need to get the connection times right on the way home which takes a bit of getting used to if you've always used the tube. Bakerloo line might be in just in time for our retirement. Grrr

Petts Wood has better train choices than for example Bromley South. From Petts Wood you will get over ten trains an hour in the morning peak to a variety of destinations including LB, Victoria, CX, Cannon St, Blackfriars. Prices reasonable but pricier than some neighbouring areas, reflecting the fact people want to live there. We live in a 4 bed detached that would fall in your budget. We are looking at Newstead, Chis & Sid, Townley etc for secondary. We love Petts Wood, great events going on for families, safe and best mix of suburb on the edge of the greenbelt. Good luck.,

Fiona, you're right Petts Wood is lovely but unless you are in the Darrick Wood catchment, it's a bit of an oasis secondary school wise (all the schools you mention are all selective) so if your DC doesn't pass Newstead or the Bexley 11+, I'm not sure what your choice would be.

Thank you very much for your comment fionaf.
I personally never been to Petts Wood but it must be nice area to live as quite a few people mentioned the area in this thread.
I didn't know that there are so many destinations from there.

However as wineoclockthanks mentioned, we are looking for a good non selective school just in case my daughter didn't pass 11+ so for the reason Petts Wood wouldn't be the area we focus on.

Having lived in Orpington for a few years, we are now looking at schools due to having a toddler. There are many decent primary schools in Orpington, but I concur with the advice to look at secondary schools and see which catchment areas also cover primary schools.

It is quite tricky to judge because the catchment areas are shrinking rapidly every year. We bought a house inside the catchment of a top school and we are now out of it as the area has shrunk. As everyone is looking to live next to their choice of schools, the areas will keep shrinking and house prices will rocket!

Regarding trains from Orpington - I have found them ok since the Thames Link effect has settled down. Admittedly I start work at 9:30am and get the 9:05 train which gets to London Bridge at 9:23. For Canary Wharf I have gone via Lewisham and the DLR which was pretty easy. I work all over London sometimes and I find the choice of stations on offer at Orpington are better than many other stations in Bromley.

One thing to consider is how far from a station you want to be. If you want to be 10 minutes from the station and in the catchment of a good primary and secondary school you only have a small area to choose from. If you are ok with a 20 minute walk to the station then you get more choices.

We are holding out for that perfect property and have found a couple so will see how it goes!

Our biggest concern is spending loads of money on a house and finding that we are not in the catchment of either the primary or secondary school we intended - that would be gutting. Also some London boroughs have discarded the straight line measurement in favour of a lottery system, so that could happen before we apply for a secondary school - a scary thought!

quitenormal - Thank you for your comment.
Yes, I noticed that school catchment is shrinking in Bromley borough.
We are going to visit school open day/eve this year and then decide which area we need to focus on.

My DH prefers moving to either Elmstead Woods or Chislehurst station area for his commuting and also within Bullers Wood catchment.
We need to win a lottery.

Positive thing is DH doesn't mind walking for 15 minutes + or taking a bus to those stations so property choices are slightly more.

Our concern is same as you.
We will be absolutely gutted if our next house (we don't know where yet) will become out of catchment in a couple of years time so we need to be very careful what property we go for.

IMHO you should be very careful about what type of property you buy near schools. As mentioned, some boroughs are changing the catchment area system to prevent over-inflation of house prices near the schools.

The reason I say "type of property" is that e.g an older, spacious, solid house on a nicer road is likely to hold its value better over a long period of time. Many people in Orpington are paying up to a £200k premium for the school catchment area - even if the houses are not that great. As soon as the system changes, which it probably will if you look 10+ years into the future, those houses will drop in value relatively speaking as their one main selling point is transient.

If you make sure the property you buy is a top quality building with a good garden, great road, neighbourhood, etc. - that will always be worth something over the other houses (often smaller, tiny gardens, etc.) when the catchment area playing field is levelled.

I have already mentioned that some boroughs have switched to a lottery system with a wider area covered. This means that instantly the closest houses have no extra value over any other house in the lottery catchment.

Worth bearing in mind - the two nightmare scenarios are:

• House prices stop rising, then the catchment area system changes. Those expensive houses may drop in price rapidly.
• The catchment area system changes before you apply for a school and you are not guaranteed a place despite paying all that money for the house in that area.

We've promised ourselves to get a house/building we love in road we love, but near good schools too so that at least we have a good chance of being in a good school catchment (whatever system is around at the time) but also being happy with the place we live too. We viewed houses next door to schools and they were boxy with small gardens for the money - estate agents freely comment on the over-inflated prices of them too.