How big is the step up to A levels really?

[TeenAndTween]

Everyone talks about the step up from GCSE to A levels.

So does that mean the only ones who can cope with A levels are people who sailed through GCSEs, or who weren't working at full capacity?

Trying to work out how best to advise my hard working DD, currently predicted Bs and Cs.

(Humanities not sciences if that makes a difference).

Strawberry that's made me feel better. My ds (year 9) is the same, capable of As like his sister, but frankly, idle. There's hope yet!

DS2 is finding the 6th form much easier .He is is doing maths,Fm, physics and chemistry and has got rid of all the subjects he wasn't interested in.
I don't think they are particularly work-heavy subjecys at all.tHe does all his homework at school and does practice papers/STEP papers and reading round the subject at home.But that is fun for him not work!He is getting over 95% on every test and the teachers are already saying they plan to predict A*s next year.I am not sure it is very wise of them to say that after just a term in?

' gets him in a stew that he won't have enough points for Oxbridge'

where is he getting this information from? Oxford and Cambridge make offers based on 3 A levels

Sorry,
Oxford and Cambridge make offers based on 3 A levels at A2 and STEP papers (Cambridge) as I understand it

Well, possibly STEP papers. It depends on the subject.

What Cambridge told us they were looking for was at least 90% in the 3 best and relevant AS papers (so not, say, art AS for a natural scientist, or geography for an engineer). Maths/FM/physics/chem would all go down well.

Its difficult to comment as it will have changed so much in last 15yrs.
It used to be a huge difference.
My Bs at gcse sciences and maths became CDD at a level.
But once it went modular the exams were much easier i got a/bs on those.
So i guess it depends on what thry have done to the exams.
I think one girl got A at gcse chemistry and ungraded at alevel.
The sciences are like a whole new subject, you could be better in more depth or worse. If you pick a subject or 2 you shouldnt it will affect your performance on the others.
Pick what you find easiest/like most.
I ended up with sciences over MFL or latin i think because im awful at essays. Languages build up gradually, there is so much detail, equations in biology/chemistry that if your memory isnt good..
If they get all the same grade its going to be difficult to pick and easy to pick wrong.
dSis almost all A at gcse, switched like 3 times during first term. Ended up abc so maybe didnt pick wisely. At least starting out 4 reducing to 3 allows a more easy swap.
I would have been the only latin student (probably in a few yrs) and i think the teacher was genuinely sad/upset.
So pick what you enjoy, as i never did enjoy chem and its much harder to work hard.

TeenAndTween Does your DD understand the grammar of the MFL she is studying?

I ask this because if she is hard-working and relying on memorising her work for speaking and writing CAs she will find the jump to A Level very daunting. She will no longer be able to memorise for exams. At GCSE it is possible to get an A or even an A* without really understanding how the language works. The current GCSE specification is great for getting over the C boundary but does not guarantee a good understanding.

When I was teaching AL MFL I was always reluctant to take students with B but looked at individual cases. I would advise a student with a C to do something else. This was before the current specification.

Looking at syllabus/past papers may give an idea of the format so if say they prefer calculations/ analysis/ essays.
Im pretty sure i got an A at alevel spanish without getting all the grammar right (ser/estar para/por).
I found with effort i could do well in languages, whereas i felt i put more into the sciences and got less out.
Languages i think still require a logical mind.
For a language you could see what literature might be read, and say the AQA books are good if that is the board they will be doing.

Rennie naty Thank you for comments on language. I feel her grammar is weak (at least in French, I don't know Spanish which is her choice for A level, she only started it in y10). She enjoys the speaking part most of all. I just don't know enough to know whether a B at GCSE is really sufficient.

I think it is a great idea to look at the syllabus/past papers and maybe I need to look at the revision guides in Smiths too.

Perhaps things will become clearer after mocks ...

I would like to see the stats but i imagine there arent many students who only get a B at gcse and manage to lift that to an A. I think thats several things
Difficulty
Depth
Tougher marking
But say at gcse my B in history was like 50-60-70% depending on how everyone performed.
With alevel B was 70-80%, so you have to improve at something harder, in my subjects anyway.
If you work pretty hard you may get the same grade.
At least with mocks you can see the exact % they got so if they end up with 56% in say history, maybe scraping a B then it may be better to select something they are getting a solid B on.
What they might want to study at uni would also make a difference.
If her main interest was say the language though this could be of limited use as choices change as you get better or worse at subjects

My DD has found the step up a bit of a challenge. She got mainly As with a couple of Bs and a C at GCSE. She's now doing 4 humanities A-levels and has found the analysis required to be quite difficult. For example, in her first AS History essay she received an E which really knocked her confidence. Three months in, and after a couple of one to ones with her teachers, she's consistently getting Bs, although she still struggles with the analysis needed. She regularly come home though saying that some of the brighter kids at GCSE are getting much lower grades than she would expect given their previous performance.

I think what people sometimes forget is that far fewer kids pass A levels than pass GCSEs.

So a kid who just scraped a GCSE C probably won't pass A level. That means they get a U - an E is an A level pass.

And a kids who did a bit better than that - a B or higher C - will probably get a D or an E.

They rarely if ever go from B/C at GCSE to B/C at A level. The kids getting B/C at A level are those who couldn't manage A*s at GCSE.

Obviously not true for everyone - some people really take off at A level, either because they just grow up the necessary amount or because they're naturally better at doing a few narrow subjects than lots of broader ones.

At maths A-level at my school we only accept students with an A or A at GCSE. These students go on to get every grade from an A to a U or E at AS (and are not allowed to continue to Y13). It's hard to predict from GCSE grade alone who will succeed and who will bomb out, and although it's less likely than an A student will struggle at AS, it's not unheard of.

I think the jump is the amount of independent work required. I didn't really get it - I have A*/A at GCSE with very little work done and CCC at A Level. I just didn't have the work ethic. I have ended up a chartered accountant though, it didn't all go downhill!

Thats a bit sad noble as i went from a B gcse to a C alevel maths. Though i guess this is like 20yrs ago now. But i guess everyone starting at the same ability probably benefits the whole class.
There is no way to know beforehand that there are topics you just dont understand.
Lots of students back then got only b/c and went on to alevel, just about passed or got say 2 and carried on to get good degrees.

ds3 got a mix of Bs and Cs at gcse last summer (he was hoping for a couple of As but wasn't to be) and is now doing a BTEC extended diploma at college but not feeling stretched in the slightest. He doesn't regret not staying on at school and doing A levels as he couldn't find 4 subjects he was sufficiently interested in.

In your case I would encourage your dd to apply for A levels as well as putting in an application for a BTEC but one where there is the option to do an accompanying AS alongside it. I'm currently looking for a tutor for ds3 to do statistics AS and wish we had thought of it earlier.

Thanks eat , that is exactly what DD has done, applications for A levels and BTEC. I am definitely erring towards the BTEC for her, but don't want her to think I haven't got faith in her abilities!

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far. Would still love to hear more on how B/C students get on.

Please be aware that the top unis, incl Oxbridge, do not look at ucas points. They look at AS module marks. So your son should not be doing 5 subjects as he is spreading his efforts too thinly. He should drop one now and focus on getting the best possible marks in the AS exams of the remaining 4.

missed the post from the mner whose ds was doing 5 AS levels jeanne

I think Trilby is spot on - a lot of it's down to how much you are able to work independently. DS1 was hopeless at self-motivation and independent working so really bombed his A levels. DS2 is excellent at independent working - has never needed to be nagged or encouraged. He coped with the jump from GCSE to AS very well (apart from in maths ....).

What I would say is that, while everyone talks about the jump from GCSE to AS, the jump from AS to A2 is, from my experience, far greater. Not only is the work harder at A2, they are having to juggle personal statements and uni visits in the first term as well..

jeanne16 Five good AS is doable for the most able youngsters though not for everyone, also with Maths and Physics there is a little overlap. DS1 was warned not to spread himself too thin but achieved top grades with very high UMS in 5 AS and A* in four A levels.
The poster with a DC doing 5 mentioned STEP so I presume is aiming for Cambridge.
This thread is not about DC like that though it's about those who work hard to get GCSEs and whether A levels are the right choice for them. There is no question that my DS2 would attempt 5 AS levels. He is finding the step up in content manageable but the self study much more difficult.

We've been looking at 6th forms this last month. My dd had made up her mind she wanted to do Physics, Maths and Further maths, and was wavering a bit over her 4th, but 3 out of the 4 6th forms said they wouldn't coundt FM as a 'full choice' so they'd expect her to take Physics, Maths, FM, and 2 others.
Obviously, being the dd of a MNer I have to say she's quite bright but seriously, she's only "ordinarily bright" not outstandingly G&T or anything.

BackforGood It's true (but only on MN) that sometimes Further Maths is looked upon as not a full A level.
DS1's friend did exactly what your DD is looking at - Maths, FM and Physics. A levels. She is now studying Maths at a top university and she got 5 good offers with those subjects.
She did also do Chemistry to AS but I appreciate that things are changing as far as AS goes next year.
I admit to steering DS2 away from FM because he is also only "ordinarily bright". I saw many of DS1's cohort do very badly at it and he doesn't love maths enough .

BackforGood The one situation I'm aware of where FM might not 'count' for university admissions is medicine: www.furthermaths.org.uk/medicine. For a Physics or Maths degree, Physics, Maths and Further Maths is a good set of A-levels. And probably for most Engineering degrees too (but I don't have first hand expertise there).

LSE want to see Further Maths to at least AS level for Economics but wont offer against it.

Part of the point may be that for a very able mathematician double maths really is not the work load of, say, two humanities A levels. So two maths plus only one other won't provide evidence that a candidate can manage the work load at University, which again is quite a step up.