Commute to StPaul school -impact on homework/tiredness

[DuckMama]

I would like to ask a moment of your time for your thoughts. My son has currently offers from Winchester, StPaul and Eton for entry in 2015. I am Italian, and the thought of boarding does not appeal much (yes- i'm a hen mum) StPaul would add a 2 hours commute on public transport (we live in Dulwich, so no school bus from here) to what I expect will be a pressing academic schedule.

Does anyone have experience with how their son coped? Or has decided against considering it heavy for a 13 yr old?

We have our entire life ahead to commute....

I travelled but age 11, just looked and it was 28 miles (went on a bus)
I did it for a year but I used to come home and cry because I was so damn tired. Don't remember much else except for cold freezing mornings and coming home in the dark

If I had a super-competitive, super-clever child who had easily been accepted into St. Paul's, I would move from the SE to the SW to accommodate.

If I had a child who had really jumped through hoops to get into St. Pauls and lived in the SE, I would definitely stay local - I think the commute could be the straw that broke the camel's back.

One of my children commuted for over an hour each day (tube, tube, bus) to get to grammar school (we live in a non grammar area) and I would not recommend it. Not just tiredness but her social life and extra curricula activities were severely compromised. In retrospect she would have probably got the same grades at the local comprehensive.

You have excellent schools near you. If they are not an option move closer or let him board.

DuckMama - your own last sentence in the OP summed it all up. Nobody in their right mind would commute a long distance, relying on more than one type of public transport, if they didn't have to.

At our nearest super-selective grammar, people travel from a south coast town (2 hour train journey) - complete madness, unless you know the alternative available education for those DC in the local schools.
Not all of us would do that, but for some it is the best option.
In the case of the OP, however, there is Dulwich college which would provide a similar experience.
As it happens, many SPS parents do choose to move from eg North London to Barnes to reduce the commute.
And it is not all about grades and destinations! If you have DC who are super-bright and hardworking, they are likely to happiest with other Dc who share the same work ethic, and they can flourish, not just notch up grades by ticking boxes. The learning experience is vital, not just the end result.
And people who always join in threads ignoring the OP, but just to tell proudly of how their DC got super grades at the local comp and -wow!- even got into medicine are completely missing the point - she was asking about commuting time, not independent versus state, however much those with an agenda are determined to shoehorn it in, however irrelevant.

I agree with CindyLou. A particular child would do better at St. Paul's than Dulwich. It's not an outrageous question.

Cindylou if that comment was directed at me, you have completely missed the point. My DD did a long commute to get to Tiffin Girls, she was not the only one (but no one commuted in from Portsmouth if that is the school/myth you are referring to). Great school though it is, I don't think any school is worth that long commute, hence my comment that the local comp which is now excellent ( in retrospect) would be good enough.

That was not what I meant more a very able child will get the results wherever so you have to look at quality of life and an exhausting commute will not enhance that. As someone whose commute is car/train/ferry/bus the smallest mix up can lead to long delays. It seems unlikely this is the only school the OP's child would be happy at so it is an important issue. It is not an issue of indie v state but exhausting commute v shorter journey or boarding.

DS(12) commutes for just over an hour each way to school. He takes the school bus most mornings (except one when he has to be in very early for choir) and afternoons are a mix of school bus or walk to bus stop, bus, walk to train station, train then phone me for lift home.

He's not bothered by the commute at all and just listens to music the whole way. On school bus days he's home around 5 and on train days when he's stayed for after school activities he's usually home from 7-8PM.

He also swim with a local swim club and if anything, his schedule has forced this otherwise very lazy child(!) to get organised and plan out his homework properly!

It does sometimes get interesting when the trains aren't running or when he sleeps through his bus stop on the way to the train station and ends up in an unfamiliar part of Edinburgh. He's become very independent very quickly!

The very able child does not always get the best results if the teaching is poor. Neither do they get the best careers advice or even A level combination advice. A bog standard comp may not get you the very useful connections either.

OP. I would definitely go for the boarding in your case. If your DS is happy about this, you really cannot keep him at home, doing a long commute, because of your feelings. Think about what he wants, not what is best for you. Boarding means he will be totally immersed in school and will greatly benefit from that. Commuting is tiring, non productive and, in London, very frustrating. Boarding - maybe a 200m walk home!

Many DC find a long school commute stressful and, IMVHO, there are only rarely justifiable reasons for a commute as long as the one proposed in the OP. I would never want a child of mine to have such a journey to school.

SPGS is an hour on one bus from my house then a 15 min walk but
I'm not considering it.
It's too much, every day , 5 days a week, 7 years.
Even though I completely love the school. Tough decision.

If OP is ruling out DC under Dr Spence, she may as well rule out Eton as well.

So, Winchester it is.

(It's no more hostile to the school's list management nor to other parents to be holding one CE offer and trying for two day schools in February/March, than it is to be holding three CE offers as late as this).

It will depend on the child. Yesterday, DS was up at 6:30 to leave the house at 7:10 to catch his bus (7:20) to school, arriving at 8:40. He went to school all day then did rowing from 3:30-5:30. He then caught a city bus down to where his father works, met him and they walked to the train station and got the train home together. When they got to our train station, he was still on a high from rowing and asked if he could dump his bags in DH's car and run the 1.5 miles home (in the wind and pouring rain- crazy child!). He appeared at the front door at 7:02.

I'd try the commute a few times with your son and see how he feels about it.

Would you be prepared to move if it was obvious the commute wasn't working ? If dh and ds prefer boarding won't they just turn this round on you if things goes wrong ? It is slightly more do-able at 13 than 11 but those first few terms are crucial to integrating and he may worry he misses out.

Are you too late to look at Westminster? I think high achievers from SE London go there as it is an easy walk from Victoria. My DS is at SPS & I don't think they have much homework but I wouldn't send my child across London to get there.

The boys do still go in & out of the gate on the bridge, it's only open when they go in & out & there is a porter there checking who is going in/out.

"A bog standard comp may not get you the very useful connections either."

And people actually defend this state of affairs? And pay into into it to perpetuate it?

"Are you too late to look at Westminster?"

Yes, about a year too late. They pretest in year 6, and although like any school will look at a late candidate in exceptional circumstances, there's nothing posted here that suggests any would apply here.

Travelling on public transport is tiring. If your child has a long commute then the best option would be the school coach. Are you not able to move closer to a coach stop? Or move closer to the school? My son commutes just over an hour on the school coach every morning, that doesn't include the short drive to get him to the stop. I pick him up in the afternoon and we sit in horrendous traffic jams to get home. The school coach leaves school 50 minutes after school finishes( he can do his homework in a supervised area). If he took the coach home he could realistically be getting home at 6.15pm.
On public transport your child will be lugging ( on various days), sports kit, musical instrument, back pack. Some days, all three!
We are moving so that he can do some after school activities, it's easier for us to get to parents evenings, school drama/music productions/social evenings/events, early morning sports fixtures! And so he can meet up with friends locally.
There are a lot of boys who commute on public transport but they generally have a direct journey or they take the school coach.
St Pauls is an amazing school, it depends on how much you/ he is willing to sacrifice to go there.

I agree with Swimming about bags. DD had a "five bag day" which was awful when jostling through a main line station in rush hour.

At minimum you would need to discourage your son from playing a large instrument, taking Art GCSE, playing more than one sport and even then choosing his sport carefully. Rule out any suggestion of playing GK in hockey for example. He would also need to think about getting too involved in drama. Its not just the performances, but lots of rehearsals after school. Driving from Dulwich to Barnes to pick him up every night for a week would be awful.

A school coach, or a tube full of friends, is different, and provides some social and wind down time. On your own can be miserable especially if you are surrounded by a full carriage of commuters. No seat = no chance to do a bit of reading.

Trains and tubes have their issues. The worst problems come with buses, especially if the route is affected by significant road works lasting months.

You might ask SPS about what transport arrangements there are, and how many students they have from your post code. I remember one family years ago, who were looking at a shared taxi arrangement once they realised how miserable it was to rely on two forms of public transport plus the trudge across the river. They decided to move instead!

It also depends on where your younger son is likely to go.

FWIW I would go for Dulwich and if he is really at the top of the year and wanting to study in a more selective environment, think about a move to either Westminster or SPS for sixth form. Dulwich offers an awful lot often, especially sport, to a higher standard than SPS.

Minifingers

Have you not reaised what puplic schools are all about!!???

"Have you not reaised what puplic schools are all about!!???"

It seems to me that they're about creating an elite who - it is hoped - will go on to hold disproportionate numbers of senior positions of influence in industry, politics, the media, law and medicine, helped by a massively privileged education.

And that this elite group of pupils is drawn overwhelmingly from families who are already rich and powerful.

Reading threads like this is an uncomfortable reminder that there are plenty of people out there who don't see this as a regrettable state of affairs.

Rich and powerful?
My parents and grandparents were very poor.
We are not rich - we worked hard, and chose to spend the money we earned on giving our children the best possible education - so that they enjoy their school years.
Not encountered any aristos at the DC leading indie - but lots of people like us who value education, rather than just looking at the end result. Getting into a good 'uni' - or indeed any 'uni' is irrelevant to us - is the learning experience that matters.
The school is the best suited to them - they could have gone to a super-selective grammar free of charge, but it is a results factory, and we did not see that as a good way to spend a childhood.

I had a friend who had to do about a 3hr round trip commute to St Paul's as a boy, his memories are miserable. But as others have said if you do train to Victoria, tube to hammersmith you can enter St Paul's just at the bridge, so you don't have to do the bus bit.

You do seem to have made some odd choices, OP, when you live near so many good schools. Do other boys from your ds's prep make the same decision?At this stage, I'd say go for in priority a) boarding if this is what your ds wants b) a local school and c) moving