Preference for first choice School

[HPFA]

At the headteacher's talk at one school I visited the Head said during her talk "To maximise your chance of getting into this school you do need to make us your first choice" and at a visit to another school when I asked the Head what she thought were the chances for out-of-catchment children this year she said " If you put us first you should be fine"
My understanding was that it is illegal to give preference to those who have ranked a school first? Am i wrong? Would headteachers really tell untruths about this?

what borough are you in? you should ask the council admissions.

In our borough the schools do not find out what preference you put them in, if you don't qualify for your first choice your second choice becomes your first choice etc.. It wasn't always like this though.

It's correct to the extent that if you put them first, and you qualify for a place, you will be offered it. And that if, because it's a long shot, you put them lower down the form, and you qualify for the (nearer?) school you put first, then you will not be offered it, even if you qualified, because you will get your first preference.

As long as you have a 'banker' on your form, use your higher choices for the schools you really want in the order you want them.

It does not mean they can prioritise 'first preference' (not least because they are not told when ranking against criteria which preference they were).

The first head could have worded it better. Some parents put their local school as first choice and their preferred school as second choice believing they won't get into their local school unless they make it first choice. In that context the head is right - if you put this school as second or third choice there is the possibility that you will get a place at your first choice. If this is the school you really want you should make it first choice.

The answer from the second head is clearly wrong. If they operate a formal catchment zone children from outside the zone will only be admitted if there are places left once all those inside the zone have got places. It makes no difference whether you make this school first choice or not.

You are correct that it is illegal to give preference to those who have ranked a school first. Unfortunately some head teachers (particularly at community schools) have only a very limited understanding of how the admissions process works. This sometimes leads to them giving very poor advice to parents.

I agree with PRH but I am not sure that I agree that some heads have only a limited understanding of how the admissions process works. I think that many that trot out these poorly worded or just plain wrong advice are actually very aware of what they are saying.
Certainly at least two schools local to me have heads that are well aware of the admissions process, trot out a twisted message about making sure they are first preference and then say they have been misquoted when it is bought up.

You should put the schools in the order you actually prefer them. They are not allowed to differentiate between applicants who have put the school as first preference and applicants who have put it lower down on the list. If your child meets the admission criteria for more than one school, then you will be offered a place at whichever one is higher on your list.

i'm with admission
the stat they like to quote is number of first choice preferences. the schools like it when they get a high number of first choice preferences. everyone wants the school that everyone else wants and vice versa. self fulfilling prophecy.

When I worked for an LEA a popular school used to try and increase their size by encouraging parents to put them down as first choice and "guaranteeing" a place. Regrettably the LEA was weak and it worked. Lots of temporary classrooms arrived.

Christ, every single school we've looked at has told us to put it down as first choice to increase the likelihood of ds getting a place.

Three of these schools do admissions on distance, two use fair banding, one uses a lottery system.

This is doing my head in. Just had a look on the council website, which says this:

"Will I have a better chance of getting my first
preference than someone who lists it as a
second or lower preference?
No. All preferences are considered equally against the
schools’ admission criteria."

"The law requires admission authorities to meet parental
preference wherever they possibly can."

To me these statements are conflicting, particularly in relation to a lottery system where distance is not an issue.

Not really conflicting. By naming the three schools on your form THAT is expressing your preference. Even if a lottery system applies you're put into the ballot for your preferred schools, and 99% of folk get one of their three listed schools, so the lea has satisfied your preference.

If two children meet the admissions criteria of a school equally and one has the school as first choice, and the other as fifth, who is more likely to get a place?

If the one who listed it fifth has not gained a place in schools one to four, and there is just one space left it will go to the child who meets the criteria best, so it could be the child who put it first, or the child who put it fifth if they live fractionally nearer.

Distance is the usual tiebreaker, and is calculated to three decimal places of a metre so virtually impossible for two applicants to have identical distances unless they live in the same house.

In other words it's pretty much impossible for two children to meet identical criteria.

So am no more likely to get a school if I put it first or fifth?

All the schools I'm applying for are very oversubscribed. The school I like least is the one I live nearest to. Should I put it last on my list?

Yes! If all else fails you'll at least have that as a fallback position, rather than one you don't like on the other side of your LEA.

"so virtually impossible for two applicants to have identical distances unless they live in the same house."

And is it not the case that if multiples, they can be admitted even if it takes the school over PAN?

But not step-siblings at same address, or siblings so close in age they fall in same school year. Which I think is an oddity, as these families have same need as those with multiples (and there can't be that many families affected, but these families would also never benefit from sibling priority)

One house split into flats or blocks of flats? Although often the LA has a policy for deciding which child gets the place in that case.

Lowest door number is the usual rule for flats in the same block.

For secondary multiples and same year siblings (normally including step and half if in same household) do not count as excepted in the same way they would for reception. If there are twins wanting the final place the parents will be asked which child gets the place. Clearly the other is then at the top of the waiting list.

I am not sure that I agree that some heads have only a limited understanding of how the admissions process works

I was being charitable. I increasingly share Admission's view that many heads are deliberately trying to generate as many first preferences as possible.

"All the schools I'm applying for are very oversubscribed. The school I like least is the one I live nearest to. Should I put it last on my list?", yes, and you should make sure that that s a school you have a good chance of actually getting a place in. if there is not a school on your list that can offer you a place based on it's published admissions criteria, the LA will offer you a school, any school, that has a place after everyone else's places have been allocated. You can't play the system by only listing popular oversubscribed schools on the understanding that 'they will have to give you one of them'.

"The law requires admission authorities to meet parental
preference wherever they possibly can."
This isn't contradictory - it is a supplementary confirmation of the system. The schools tell the LA which pupils they can admit, base on their particular criteria (distance, lottery etc) and the LA must then offer you whichever of those places is highest up your preferences.

The LA couldn't, for example, say 'Oh, sorryforher has been offered places at her second and third preference schools, so let's give her her the third choice one, as that is undersubscribed and we need to take pressure off the second [listed school to make way for parents who named it first'. That is what the equal preference system is all about.

List the schools in the exact order in which you genuinely prefer them.

Is the very over subscribed school that you like least your closest school? If not, is there a good chance you will get a place?