AS and A levels from Sept 2015

[wincy]

My DD is currently making her A level and sixth form choices for next year.
The sixth form at her current school are asking them to choose 4 AS levels (and do the exams) in Y12 and then drop one and continue with 3 A levels in Y13. These will nearly all be the new linear exams and the AS levels won't count towards the A level.
I can see this will allow some flexibility but also a lot of extra work? I suppose one of the good things about a 2 year linear exam would be that Y12 wouldn't be so focused on exams and allow for extra teaching time. I assumed with the new exams they would just be doing the A levels and not bothering with AS.
Would this be the worst of both worlds? The school says this format will be for those starting in 2015 only, during the transition period for the new exams. We haven't visited any other sixth forms yet so don't know if this is what other schools are planning to do.

It is tricky because students often change their minds about what to continue in light of AS results.
It is also tricky because people taking the 1 year AS won't always be able to sit in with other L6th who are doing the full 2 years as what is taught in the lower sixth to the two types of student will not necessarily be the same.....so potentially a nightmare for timetabling. This makes it seem to me, that doing the AS for all 4 might be the only safe option, keeping all doors open.....then continuing to A2 with those who want to and arranging the teaching in the U6th to make sure everything g necessary has been covered....might just alter the order in which some of it would be taught, from the ideal.

I think many schools will go for this 'safe' option for the first year through and adjust as more information becomes available......ie will sit the AS exams at end of L6th in full knowledge that they dont count.
These wouldn't be seen as a total waste of time, because they will keep the students focused towards an external exam (in the old days the L6th was often wasted as pupils were not very motivated) and will also mean they are fully able to choose their A2s based on their AS results. Extra to this, there will be e benefit that everyone in the L6th follows the same specification....there won't be those following an AS course and those following different topics.

It is this last issue of the A2 course (what you would cover in L6th) not being compatible or the same as the AS course which seems to be the main concern.

Other people looking to NOT do the AS at end of L6th as a matter of course, how do you see your schools coping with this? Will the students have to say from the word go, which is their 4th option? Will they be timetabled just with other people only doing AS, rather than in with the L6th continuing to A2? I'd be very interested to know what people think about this.

In my subject (a humanity) this is a serious concern. I realise it might not be such an issue for something like Maths which builds progressively on skills, so the teaching in the U6th will always be dependent on what has been covered in the L6th.

What would worry me, and my DS is in Y12 so not affected, is that this follows on from the abolition of the January module. Which used to provide a wake up call for very many DC who had under estimated the difficulty / workload required compared with GCSE. Many of the students in DS's class are re- taking Y12 after having unexpectedly low AS results.
This won't affect the high achievers or hard workers but there are a lot who it does affect.

The problem is that people are still thinking in terms of AS and A2. There is no A2 any more, just AS and A Level. In English, the A Level students will be working towards different exams than the AS students, exams which require different skills and combinations of texts. It's not just that it doesn't make sense to take the AS exams - it will actually be more confusing than helpful.

I think the problem is that most parents don't have a bloody clue what's going on!

(I'm going to a Parents Forum meeting at my daughters' school this week, so hoping to be at least somewhat enlightened by that!)

Does anyone know what happens from 2016? Do you take 3 or 4 linear A Levels?

So LeBear, given your situation, will you be saying that pupils have to opt into a 1 or 2 year course before they begin. And then will they be taught separately in the L6th?
I can see what you mean about the 2 year students being confused by being prepared for the AS exam.

Apparently in History some of the A2 courses just study a longer period for A2 than AS. Whilst you might think you would just teach the early period for L6th and carry on, that wouldn't work, as any questions at A2 would cover the full period and so before you could prepare any answers you would have to have covered the full period.....so people will teach thematically, rather than chronologically.....which won't work for anyone just doing AS. Sorry if rather confusing.

I'm concerned that a lot of schools simply won't have the capacity in terms of timetabling, staffing and rooming to facilitate separate AS and A Level courses. I know some will be pressured into co- teaching AS and first year A Level students together, and that's not possible with some specs I've previewed for English. (Edexcel is not too bad)

I'm irritated that universities pressed for the 2 year A Level and scrapping of AS, and then performed an abrupt about turn and demanded a separate AS course.

Unfortunately, it's not my decision but I would actually be pushing for students to decide at the outset, yes. I would love to have separate AS and A Level classes but that is going to be a decision above my pay grade. But what you say about the History course is what I'm fretting about if I have to co-teach the two courses. For example:

Streetcar Named Desire is on both the AS and the A Level course. So if I co-teach, I have to teach it in the L6. The AS students then sit an exam where they just have a question on Streetcar. A year later, the A Level students have to revisit Streetcar and compare it to another drama text for their exam.

Normally when I teach texts which are examined in a comparative way like that, I teach them simultaneously so that we can discuss them comparatively throughout the teaching experience.

overseasmum - as I understand it, from 2016, 3 Linear A levels. It's more confusing from 2015, as some subjects are changing to linear and others not.

I fear that my daughter (year 11) is about to become a guinea pig for an ill thought out system, which I'm struggling to understand.

Agree with secretsquirrel about kids needing a wake up call. The new system doesn't seem to provide one. What is even worse is that many sixth forms won't allow you to re-sit a year due to funding issues.

LeBearPolar I'm in the same position as you, and I'll be forced to co teach in the same way. It's really going to undermine the A Level students, isn't it? I can also foresee a situation where AS students will regret not taking A Level and be pressing to change course part way through.

Do you think it will lead towards a three year sixth form, where students take AS and the the two year A Level.

As it stands, the flagrant disregard the Unis have for schools in terms of the cost of exam entries and set texts enrages me.

My ds is y11 so we're looking at A Levels now, his is going to be a mixed bag as he will (hopefully) be doing Maths and Further Maths which are still AS and A2 and Physics and Computer Science which will be the new 2 year linear A Levels. I'm not sure if that will be to his advantage, disadvantage or be neutral.

I'm really hacked off as also feel they are guinea pigs. We should all be completely clear on what is happening and it's clear we are not.

I was wondering why the 6th form open evening is later this year . Guess it is so the teachers have time to work out how best to proceed.

LizzieVereker - I think that too about undermining the A Level students. Basically the first year is going to be all about getting the AS students ready and then the U6 is going to be a hugely intensive stressful two terms of teaching new texts and revising old ones.

For ds1 (U6 this year) the majority of the summer term was focused on AS exams: revision sessions, actual exams, exam/ study leave, with just 3 weeks at the end starting to teach the A2 material.

The school appears to be planning to stay with this model, which means in 2017 ds2 will have had 4 terms' teaching, but will be in competition for uni places with candidates who've had 5 terms teaching.

I can understand that there could be problems with timetabling standalone AS subjects as well as A levels, I suspect that they would only be allowed for certain subjects. The schools we visited were talking about 2 year AS levels so not the model of using AS levels in year 12 to decide what to drop.
Children doing IB, preUs and those in some schools taking AS /A levels together in year 13 all manage very well without relying on public exams in year 12 as a 'wake-up call' or flexibility to drop a subject.
Two years allows more maturity and time for accumulated skills when tackling the public exams. I suspect that will benefit a lot of boys. Internal exams should be sufficient to point out weak areas.

Yes, summerends, I was discussing this with DH last night (also a teacher) and while he was making the point about AS exams as a useful interim indicator, I pointed out that in my school, where half the sixth form take the IB, they all manage to succeed without external exams in the L6 - and still get university offers, etc. And they have to stick with their chosen subjects for the two years - and seem to cope with that too (as we all did before AS levels were invented...)

But don't they take more subjects in the IB? I know both my DDs would have struggled with only being able to choose 3 subjects in year 12. Both have taken maths and 3 sciences in year 12. In year 13, DD1 has dropped the subject least relevant to the degree she is now choosing - most year 11s are not certain of their degree choice!

Current year 11 ( include my dd2) have been guinea pigs all along- loss of course work at GCSE and the AS and A2 changes as well.
I tentatively suggested she should change schools to do the ibacc but actually the only local grammar that does it has now stopped that in favour of going back to A levels!
Ultimately it's going back to when I did O and A levels. My kids have far better study skills and teaching than I did ( and are probably brighter) . I suspect, as long as she has confidence in herself, these exams will suit dd and her mates well.
Not so, sadly for the kids who don't find academic work comes easily to them.

hellsbelle that is the advantage of the IB but it also works the other way, you can' t give up on a weaker subject. Children need to persist with their relatively weak subjects of the 6 total and they all count to their final marks.
I wonder whether the mentality of 'I will be able to give one up' as a general rule is a good thing rather than being reserved for the minority who really struggle or have a real change of directionIt reminds me of Homer Simpson's quip
'if it's tough just quit it'. Having said that, narrowing choice obviously has disadvantages for some children.
Perhaps some who do decide to stop a full 4th A level course may be able to join a two year AS level course to gain a qualification from it.

They do take more subjects but they have to choose three standard and three higher - so in a sense, they are choosing their preferred subjects at the end of Yr 11 in that their highers are usually where their degree subjects will come from.

Theas18 - my DDs are in years 12 and 13 and every single year there have been changes or problems with the exams that have affected their year. There needs to be some stability to the exam system, syllabus etc. and to the league tables, not the constant changes.

Hellsbells I totally agree! I also have a 21 and 18 yr old at uni, and even for them they were studying with moving goalposts. This year more so. It really not fair to the kids and the govt needs to stop fiddling! At the moment I don't think my 3 will have results that you can compare like for like - which over just 6 years is really laughable.

Summerends - I cannot see schools being able to timetable a 2 year AS course on top of the 1 year AS course and 2 year A level courses being introduced. DD2 is self studying for her Further Maths AS as her school are not running the course this year. A non selective state school, they don't have the numbers to make the course viable particularly as they don't want students taking it an an extra AS/A level - max of 4 AS subjects only. I can understand why in terms of workload/grades but this situation will get worse with this new A level format.