Injuries at school

[Returning]

DS broke a bone at school yesterday playing Rugby. Now my initial response, and likely the response I'll keep, is 'oh well, these things happen!". However, should I expect the school to make any contact with me as it happened during a lesson. I could argue that it happened because with all the rain after a prolonged dry spell the ground was particularly slippery. I have no intention of causing a fuss over all this, DS should recover with no problems, but I'm just not sure what to do/expect?

DS has lessons on 2 instruments and I pay for him to belong to a couple of music groups - he won't be able to take part in these for a number of weeks (I don't know how long yet). Should I do anything about this?

Genuinely interested in what others should do as I'm unsure if I'm being too passive about the whole thing - DH thinks I may be.

I work in a large boarding school. We have many injuries during the rugby season. Generally all our children are assessed by a nurse and then if we feel it's necessary escorted to hospital (obviously not the seriously ill who go by ambulance often from the pitch) with a member of staff, even our day children as they are on our care till 9pm. We don't always notify the parents because often the children do this themselves, also all our children are of the age to be Gillick competent. We often get in contact when we know the results of X-rays etc but again the children also do this. We like parents to keep us informed about their progress.
With regard to the pitch being slippery this is a common problem but it certainly would not stop our staff from proceeding with games/matches they would just view this as "life get in with it". Your point about the missing music lessons is interesting, we've recently discussed this. You could argue that your DS takes a known risk playing rugby, so why should the school cover the cost of the missed lessons? Does he have any other options apart from rugby? If you feel strongly can you insist he doesn't play? Would your school support you in this? My school offers 4 alternatives, only those who have serious health problems can be completely withdrawn from games.
There is increasing publicity about rugby injuries and also research into why there are more of them. More and more parents are becoming concerned about rugby and more and more schools are withdrawing from it or simply offering other alternatives.

The rugby was a normal part of PE lessons, not something he had chosen to do. Although I'm definitely not a fan of school sports, I wouldn't want to see them stop running rugby, as I think those who are keen should have every opportunity to play, but it would be nice to have a choice.

If the cast is only on for 4 weeks, which will include 1/2 term, I probably won't do anything about the music lessons, but I will find out next week.

Thanks for all the helpful and sympathetic input.

I do think you've been a bit unclear, and then rude to MaryZ and Molly.

I too, had presumed you meant the school had just let him wander home alone at the end of the day with a broken arm, and not called you.

Much later, you were clearer and said they had called you. Now, knowing that, I can't understand what you (or your dh) is expecting them to call you about on a further occasion. You know there was an accident. You know how it happened. You know it needed a hospital to look at it. I'm not sure what else you / your dh wants them to say.

A couple of people have mentioned a rugby thread. Could someone link it or tell me where it is as I'd be interested in reading it.

Thanks

And, yes, a thumb injury is very minor in the grand scale of things, but try telling that to a keen musician!

rugby is a notoriously violent and injury-prone sport- I think parents should be more aware frankly

its not the schools fault OP, hope he recovers soon

Ok, so I got a little annoyed at the snipes about compensation - sorry.

To tell me that I shouldn't expect any further contact is absolutely fine - that answers my question. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer in my first post and can see how that caused confusion.

just read school nurse, and your latest post.OP. Maybe you could email the school and say you are very disappointed that your son was quite seriously injured, and share the stats that school nurse refers to.

yanbu to be upset, I thought it was a sport he joined as opposed to a class

I am actually quite annoyed for you. we are rightly OUTRAGED when a man or woman is seriously injured performing their job, lets take construction or manufacturing as an example.

yet when its a P.E class you are meant to just "suck it up". who do we expose children a risk level that we would not an adult at work???

Thank you. My feelings exactly! Especially as he injured himself doing something he doesn't particularly enjoy and is unlikely to have any impact on his future and now is unable to partake in music which he very much enjoys and is likely to influence his future.

I think I was perhaps kind of expecting to see some kind of accident report or something. I suspect I could request this, but am really trying to avoid making a fuss - as I hope was evident in my initial post.

My child was quite seriously injured during a PE lesson at school.
DC was off school for 3 months.
School lied, refused to admit responsibility, offered absolutely no support on DC's return.
I can only think they are terrified of being sued so refuse to communicate.

i think without making fuss you can share that:

rugby is a very high risk sport, share some stats.
share that if this happended to an adult at work some proactive action and follow up would occur, not least:
(1)accident report
(2) debrief
(3) learnings etc

Treat this like you would an injuury at work, stay professional, and fuck it get the music money back

yopu can sya you are not trying to sue them but given the high risk profile of the sport you would appreciate knowing lessons have been learnt so this does not happen to antoehr child

Like bullying, there are some areas where we seem to tolerate children suffering- sport is another one

The case at our school quite horrified us. To think that the so-called medical staff actually discharged this 14/15 yr old student when they quite rightly knew he needed an x-ray was appalling in our opinion. Not surprisingly the school in question has avoided all discussions on this 'medical care' subject. They seem to have simply ignored this lack of 'duty of care' towards one of their pupils. And when the parents of the injured lad tried to get to the bottom of who attacked their son and why, again the school just seemed to ask some basic questions of certain students who were suspected and when their answers came back denying anything and everything the school just swept it all under the carpet. The parents were actually more annoyed that the school had not used it as an opportunity to teach the students that sometimes you do stupid, out-of-the blue pranks, that seem like a good idea at the time, but then go horribly wrong. But if that happens you need to hold your hands up, admit you have done it and it was a really stupid thing to do, and then apologise. The parents were sure the 'attacker' did not set out to break their sons wrist - it was just a stupid prank that went a bit too far. But the school didn't see this teaching opportunity. It was all so wrong on so many levels- and at the bottom of it all was a very talented athlete that lost a wonderful chance of getting onto his selection ladder in his sport - and no one seemed really bothered about that fact at all. Maybe if society in general was less 'lets sue', then the school would have done more about it??? Maybe if they had listened to the parents and actually realised that all the parents wanted was for the 'attacker' to just say 'sorry. I didn't mean to do it that hard. It was stupid of me' and that would be an end of the matter. But the school just immediately got on the defensive and closed all the doors tight.

I'm sure that schools in England will be covered by the RFU rules that all accidents should be reported and collated. We have to do that in Scotland - and the SRU is usually behind what the RFU does.

Not sure how assiduous the schools are - I know that we take it very seriously at ds' rugby club.

Ds broke his collarbone a year ago at rugby training at school - I got a call to go and pick him up (they dient think it was that serious ) and then made the decision to take him to A&E (detour via my neighbours who are GPs). Never got any follow-up calls from the school (nor did I expect any) but there again, I did email in with updates about what A&E had said and again when he had to go back for a follow-up. They did say thank you for letting them know.

Schools are not governed by the RFU rules (at DS school gum shields are optional!)

To the poster who thinks that rugby is notoriously violent and injury-prone sport - what facts do you have to support this?

In my personal experience rugby where children are properly coached and taught in the correct manor accidents do happen but no less than in football or any other sport! School rugby is a bit of a grey area I agree as they are often thrown into it at year 7 on starting secondary school with no experience.

My own DS has been injured playing school rugby and I have been called and asked to take him to a & e fair enough when the pe teachers is by himself at a game (the pupil/adult ratio's are not the same at secondary school). I emailed that teacher when we got home and got a lovely email in return.

The way the whole communication thing works in secondary school is different, you have to accept that I'm afraid, harse but true!

"Maybe if society in general was less 'lets sue', then the school would have done more about it???"

Yes. Just that.

joe- I hope I can find the article I was reading in a Sunday supplement about a month ago demonstrating that rugby, at school level, can be very dangerous. I am pleased that my DSs choose stuff like badminton.

I used to work in an MRI unit in Oz; the vast majority of our school-boy neck injuries happened through rugby, but not at professional level as a) by the time you get there, you have an aptitude, and b) the physique that supports playing rugby. Less athletic, more 'willowy' boys are at risk when playing amateur rugby.

joen I'm afraid you comments are not backed up by the statistics. We and most other boarding schools collate their statistics yearly we are all seeing an increase in rugby injuries.
There is no comparison with football injuries this isn't anecdotal evidence this is hard fact. Most worryingly we see serious injuries in rugby; significant head and neck injuries requiring hospitalisation including intensive care not just a visit to A and E we never see these kind of injuries in football. Paramedics, doctors, trauma trained nurses have now become routine on pitch side during matches and training for the rugby term they are not used the rest of the year round.
We are governed by RFU rules as are I believe most large boarding schools that offer rugby all our children have to wear mouth guards (and for hockey) those that loose theirs either aren't allowed to play at all or are prevented from participating in the contact side of training.
Part of the reason for increase for the increase injuries is that children simply weigh more because they are taller and heavier than they were thirty years ago, we also feel that the desire to win at all cost is becoming more important than the desire just to play and enjoy yourself a so children are simply playing harder egged on by coaches and parents.
As I said above more and more schools are either stopping playing rugby or offering viable alternatives, I'm not anti sport as I believe it has many physical and psychological benefits but I think it's about time schools realised that many children do not want to play a game that's scares the stiff and makes them miserable three to four times a week and can result in injuries that at best can have a temporary impact on academic work/other activities and at worst a permanent impact and need to look at what else they can offer. Parents are increasingly concerned and also aware of how their children feel and more and more are asking about rugby and what alternatives are available and if they don't like the answers looking for a school that does offer good alternatives. I personally think if your child is a serious musician or approaching significant exams where a hand/shoulder injury or a minor significant head injury eg mild concussion which could effect concentration/memory then parents should be questioning the school; is rugby is the right thing for their DC and if necessary insisting on an alternative being provided?

I would agree with the PP who suggested that the responsible action by the school would be to investigate, debrief and identify learnings.

In industrial accidents it is often recognised that there is a pyramid where there are lots of unsafe situations, leading to slightly fewer 'near misses', leading to fewer accidents, leading to a small number of injury causing accidents. By dealing with the unsafe situations (eg was there a pitch inspection?) can prevent many of the injury causing accidents.

A lad in my school suffered a permanent spinal injury. This was many years ago before a number of playing rules changed to minimise the specific risks. However it took a number of similar injuries to actually be investigated before the rule changes came in.

Just saying that these things happen and ignoring the cause does all players a disservice.

Thanks all for the continued comments. As expected, I haven't received any further notification from the school. I did email them to confirm a hospital appointment and to confirm that DS would not be able to take part in PE until further notice. On attending his first PE lesson after the event, the department seemed unaware of the details of his injury and had no plan in place for him to do alternative work/go to the library. Now, none of this in itself is at all serious, and the more I read the more I am incredibly grateful and realistic that this is a very, very minor injury. However, I think the post above makes a useful point about the learning experience to be drawn. I did have a word with one of the governors informally who assures me that these things do get discussed at meetings and I've asked the governor to keep their ear open on this one and to ask questions if they hear nothing.

However, having decided to be very relaxed about the whole thing, I am now starting to feel, encouraged by one or two individuals and events, that perhaps I should at least be asking some questions of the school, to ensure that a more serious injury doesn't occur on another occasion. I think the pitch probably wasn't in a particularly safe condition, and on reflection I am concerned that my sons football boots, which are in accordance with school guidelines (for normal surfaces), were not suitable for the very damp conditions.

We obviously document the mechanism and nature of all injuries however sustained but as far as I'm aware no one investigates the cause. Usually there's not a pyramid of events leading to an injury, a child catches his finger in the shorts of a fellow player and fractures it, ditto when he catches a ball badly, he trips ups and badly sprains his ankle, obviously scrums collapsing etc which shouldn't happen now a days are much more significant. Unlike in non industrial injuries play is very carefully monitored by the referee and if he see's a high risk situation he has a duty to intervene, most injuries are literally accidents. All sports have a degree of risk attached to them and as parents we allow children to take these risks and have to decide with them how much of a risk we're happy for them to take, rugby injuries for example are more common than sailing injuries but injuries in sailing can occur.

schoolnurse but if there isnt an investigation into cause then how does anyone know what the risks being run actually are?

Allowing sports to be played in inappropriate clothing, not inspecting the pitch, not teaching players to catch well can all contribute to unsafe conditions and acts whereby accidents can occur. Not investigating cause allows this to continue.

Slips and trips happen but they happen a lot more often when walking on slippery surfaces in inappropriate footwear.

(can you tell that I attend an awful lot of H&S courses?)

I think you will find if you read my original post that I said that school rugby is a grey area & is completely different to club rugby. In my own experience PE teachers at school level private or state are not necessarily trained to teach rugby properly which is what probably leads to more accidents on the pitch. All clubs are required to have their coaches professionally trained by the RFU.

Certainly state schools do not have to follow RFU rules or guidelines. RFU guidelines state that coaches should take into account the suitability and condition of pitches and insure players have appropriate clothing etc. Maybe this is where the problem is with schools? Having said that no risk assessment is ever going to stop an accident happening anywhere and in any sport!

Do you really think that the RFU would get away with letting children get seriously hurt on a regular basis??

I don't doubt children get injured playing rugby but posts like some of these are scare mongering from a snap shot of people without backing up hard proof.