Question about grammar school entry and SATS levels in year 2

[SmileAndNod]

Realising that children's learning happens in peaks and troughs, what kind of levels do children need to be at at the end of year two to start thinking about possible GS entry?

I almost hate myself for even wondering about it, but parents are muttering about tutoring alreadywell some have been with tutors since year 1. I'm wondering how you know if you have a child that has the potential at this stage?

I would say it is far too young to say anything at all. You could chat with the teacher to see how things are going. I don't see the point of tutoring much before year 5.

The rational part of me wants to think that, and should we ever be in a position of our DC being bright enough, I was hoping to only get a tutor mid year 5 - to prep for the exam technique more than anything. But I find I'm getting sucked into this competitive parenting lark already and I don't like it!

It's probably a positive indicator if a child's parents are already obsessing about 11+ when they are still in the infants. Children whose parents are interested in their education always do better.

Round my way all the kids who got grammar school places were level 3 at end of year 2. (Super selective area)

Level 3 at year 2 round here too and then tutoring for the supposed un-tutor-able test. Welcome to the madness that is 11plus!

We were told at the end of Year 2 that DD was "definitely GS material" but she's Year 5 so can't really be sure she'll definitely get in. She is in the top 3 or 4 in her class, of the top local primary if that makes sense. She got a 2a in literacy I think and 3s in everything else and they also did a reading assessment where she was beyond the scale - went up to age 11 (to cater for primary school children obviously) so she was given a reading age of 11+.

Depending on your area as different things are tested, but generally a level 3 in maths and reading. Writing is less important in our area, but you'd hope for a 2a there.

No-one really tutors here until Year 5 - one or two in Kumon type things earlier but I think if you tutor for years, your child even if he or she passes will struggle at a grammar school.

However there are many more ways to be interested in and supportive of your child's education than obsessing about the 11+ and getting tutors from Yr 2.

And sometimes that obsessing is not actually about education, per se.

Just keep enabling your DC to enjoy learning, pursue their curiosity, and support the key skills to ensure confidence.

I should probably care more about my DC levels and things but I figure there's plenty of time for that particular worry. At the moment I am more concerned with behaviour.

Was school always like this? I do my best to avoid any talk about reading books, which group they're in for this and that but some parents just seem so nosy! I have no interest in what their child is doing so I've no idea why they need to know about mine.

Is it just because we're in a GS area? I feel so much pressure

He he, smile and nod. As a teacher-I'd say the other mums are interested in what your child is doing only if they're doing well and are competition, ie a threat!!

Take it as a compliment.

Which grammar area are you in? The levels vary so much. in Kingston for example with just the Tiffin grammars you need to be the top 2-3% so really need to be very bright and very good/prepped at VR/NVR.

Kent/Bucks more like the top group at a normal primary so level 3s in yr2.

i would put their name down with a tutor now, to start in yr5 - a full year of tutoring should be more than sufficient.

Really? If I presented them with my six year old wouldn't they look at me like this -> . I couldn't even tell if they were capable of the exam in four years time and I'm pretty sure the school would never mention it.

From what I've heard from friends with older children there are three papers Maths, English and VR in this area. Apparently this year's test was a lot harder, and they are still waiting for results.

SmileandNod:

Genuinely start to worry about this in Year 4 - decide if its the best course for your child (given their personality & interests) and if you want to personally invest the time home tutoring or pay for a tutor.

In the meantime - eleven plus forum for your region is absolutely the place to go to hear more about how people prepare for the test in your area and what they do: www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewforum.php?f=64

HTH

Forgot to say: Right now (KS2 lower) worry about solid calculation skills and getting those times tables to x 12 learned. Try to include more ambitious/ better quality fiction in their reading and regularly do some reading with them - don't just leave them to read on their own - but talk about meaning of words. I started to talk about sentences that hinted something was going to happen - I didn't call it foreshadowing - but started to talk about how we know something about a character or what's about to happen even though the author doesn't come out and say it.

I have a DD in grammar. She loved reading, still does, which i think helped with verbal reasoning papers.
We never paid for tutoring. I did some papers with her about 6 months prior to test. A lot of that was getting timing right and being familiar with questions.
I would be careful of needing 2 years tutoring, some of my DD's friends who had that are now struggling, they were tutored to pass the 11 plus

seriously i would put your name down with a tutor. I had my DD's name down with a tutor when she was in yr1. Ridiculous i know but i actually got the last spot (for 4 years later), the tutor didn't think it was strange behaviour in the slightest. I decided not to do the Tiffin exam so took her name off when the time came, but many tutors are booked up well in advance. oh and nobody else will tell you this info. you learn for your second child!

also be aware that if you put your name down with a tutor this may only be for an assessment in yr5. it doesn't necessarily mean the tutor will take her on.

Maths, English and VR

• then you're lucky. it's the NVR that you can be heavily tutored for and many get 100% after doing paper after paper for 5 years! seriously.

I'd be finding out what level the children leave your school at in SATS. If most get level 5s with some level 6s you'll probably be ok with just some practice papers, plenty of reading etc. If it is mostly level 4s with a handful of level 5s then i'd get a tutor to bring the level up.

So, for 'normal' grammars you need level 3s at the end of year 2, does that mean you need level 4s for the super selectives?!

Googley

Genuinely it isn't that straightforward. The 11+ or selective entrance exams will test children in areas that schools never reach - so in part it's how adaptable children are to different testing formats & pressure.

again - strongly advice that you look seriously at elevenplus.co.uk forum for your region and see what people are saying/ advising there.

HTH