Different approaches to who gets to do triple/double science

[redskybynight]

Looking at the 2 closest secondaries to our house (DS in Y6).

At secondary 1 - 50% take triple science GCSE and basically everyone else takes double science

At secondary 2, 25% take triple science GCSE and about 50% take double science. Looks like the rest just take core science.

The intakes are broadly similar and the numbers in cohorts are the same (approx 200), so this sounds like a definite school policy i.e secondary 1 allows children with a lower starting level to take triple science.

At first glance I prefer secondary 1's approach - that more children get the chance to take triple science. But then I wondered if allowing less able children to take triple science was actually a bad thing?

Opinions?

Some questions:

• is it 'allows' or 'forces'?
• does triple take up an extra option block, or is triple 'accelerated' i.e. done in the same time as double?
• what are the results like

There is a lot of content in even double science in my opinion.

I think the more flexible the options at GCSE the better, ^provided the pupils and parents are well advised as to the implications of their choices'

Are those percentages just based on the 2014 GCSE results OP?
I would have a look at the option booklet for children starting their GCSEs this year and see how each school decides who takes Triple Science etc.
I have a dd in Y10 and for her year group Core Science is only an option for lower ability pupils. This is because the government have now decided that most pupils should take at least Double Science. It looks as if school 1 is already doing this but perhaps school 2 haven't introduced this yet.

At dds school all children who achieve level 6b (or higher) at the end of Y9 have the opportunity to take Triple Science if they wish to. However it could be that school 2 only allows the top set to take Triple Science so pupils in set 2 who achieve e.g. 6a at the end of Y9 could perhaps miss out even though they are of suitable ability.

Am Currently looking at secondaries for DC3, this is a heart-felt opinion:

Secondaries change. It doesn't matter what policy they say they have today about triple/double entry, because it could all change in 2-3 yrs by time this policy affects your child. This is so-called Ofsted Best Practice, to constantly change how they do things like GCSE options. So Much better to go with a school which has an atmosphere & HT (& intake & convenience etc.) which you think suits your child best. Decide based on things that don't change quickly, don't decide because of things like school policy on XY or Z which could change tomorrow.

Ds's school allows the top sixty children in the year at the end of year 9 to do triple science. Even then quite a few children are transferred down to double science in year 10. It is felt that two As in double science is more useful than three Cs. It is a tough course because the childen are doing 3 GCSEs in the double science block.

Some schools decide which children do triple science on the results of a CATs test in year 7. I'm glad this wasn't the case at my son's school as he did badly in CATs. He is in the top set for science and recently got 7C in a science test in year 8.

I wish that ds could do triple science with it taking up three GCSE slots. I would like him to have time for experiments and to broaden his knowledge of science in general.

dds school does offer Triple Science as an option so it does take up enough teaching time for 3 GCSEs. The advantage of this is that dcs often obtain better results than schools with less teaching time. The disadvantage is that it may mean a pupil having to drop another subject where they may have done well.

Nosy does have a point that schools may change how pupils choose their options and requirements for each subject. In my experience though it's the Government that keeps changing the goalposts so schools have to change to fit the new requirements. There are new GCSEs coming up which will be taken by pupils currently in Y9 and below. Schools may not yet have decided which pupils will take Double or Triple Science under this new system especially since a) the new GCSEs will be more difficult and b) NC levels may not link as well with the new grading system. NC levels don't have to be used anymore, but there isn't another system to replace them yet.

Only those in the top set at my daughter's school will be considered for triple science and I guess there's a reason for that. My daughter is at the bottom of the top set, thinks she will struggle and doesn't want the pressure. She's not lazy, but as she's fairly bright she's taking French a year early and also has to do another language, on top of the usual amount of options the others get to do.

I mean this with the greatest of respect, but when considering a school I'd say it's not just about science. Do think about the schools from all aspects and if you want to know more, phone them. Any good school, will take the time to answer your questions.

In a comp
around 25-30% will be capable of triple science
but some of them will be arty types who will only want to do double - to free up their options for other things

another 45-50% will be able to do the double
but again some will only want to do the single

another 10-15% will be stretched with the single
the remainder will do the BTech

triple science is utterly irrelevant for many pupils
a solid grounding in single science will be more useful to them

Only those in the top MATHS set at DDs school get the chance of triple science.

In my DDs' school, triple science takes up an extra option so adequate time is given to study it. Anyone with level 6b or above has the option to do it but if the teachers think it may not suit then they will advise this. Those pupils who may want to carry on with A level sciences are encouraged to do triple but are told it is not essential. Triple is not harder than double, there is just more material to cover. Those opting for A levels in science are encouraged to read through the missed units over the summer if they only took double science. But things may change over the next few years with the new GCSEs.
My DDs have both taken triple science and enjoyed it.

I agree with Nosy - schools have to follow the latest guidelines set by DoE; as you will have witnessed in the last few years this changes constantly and often without notice. Deciding upon a school based on their current KS4 arrangements is not good advice

With the new 'progress 8' measure, BTec science won't count as an EBac subject so many schools are dropping it. This looks good for the school but isn't necessarily good for those lower ability DC who could come out with a meaningful BTec qualification but instead are forced to take a GCSE that they are bound to fail (ie D or lower.)

So I would be suspicious of a comprehensive school that has no DC taking just Core or BTec. The are thinking more about league tables than what is actually right for the DC, IMO.

Only top set gets to take triple in our school because it is a demanding course and only the most able will cope with it. There are a lot of exams to take in Year 11 as they don't take any exams in Year 10, Think they take something like 18 science exams in one month in Year 11!

In one school I visited they allowed anyone with a B in core science to do triple, so 50% were doing it. At another 2 schools it was 1/3 did triple, rest did double. This was ok except one was selective and one was not. So at the selective you could be really bright but not be offered the triple. They also had differing approaches, some schools offered extra lesson time for triple science, others didn't.

Triple science isn't any harder but it is more content. The reason they generally only allow top sets to take triple is if the school is teaching it in the same amount of time in which they teach double science. In this case, you need to be more able to cope with the increase in pace. The other way to approach triple is to make it one of the options which means the students lose the opportunity to study another subject.
Lastly, the reasons for doing triple is that it is better preparation for A level, so if the student's are not reaching level 6 by year 9, they probably are not going to cope with A level in sciences anyway.

I would say I've taught many students at A level who have done double and triple GCSE's and honestly I don't notice the fact that they have done triple giving them much of an advantage. In fact, sometimes the double who have learnt at a slower pace have a deeper understanding of science and cope better. Unless you are planning to do Medicine, I don't think it really matters. I would also say 2 A's at double science is worth more than B's or C's at triple.

My friend's DD is doing medicine after having done double science!

I tota;;y agree with Nosy about not getting too worked up about the finer details, as it will no doubt have changed by the time it's your dc's turn (I have 1 at University, 1 in Yr 11 and 1 in Yr8 so have experienced this quite a bit).

Purely answering the question, however, I'd want to know if that meant that other options were then limited, hence so many children took the triple science.

My dd would have been perfectly capable of doing triple science (she's very much maths / science minded), however, she has chosen to do two MFLs, therefore not having enough options left (with other choices she's made) to do triple science. If so many take the triple at this school, how many get the chance to do other academic combinations, if that's what they'd like to ?