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Secondary education

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Original poster

Further Maths A level- why?

35 replies

Tansie · 07/10/2014 14:42

Genuinely- following on from another thread about A level choice advice... or lack of!

What sort of degree pathway would make having Further Maths a good idea?

'Engineering' is apparently one- any idea what sort of Engineering?

And- stupid question alert!- Is FM higher maths than plain Maths, or just more of the same? What differentiates one from t'other?

OP posts:

OhYouBadBadKitten · 07/10/2014 14:46

All engineering would benefit really, but especially mechanical and electrical. It is harder (including differentiation and other calculus ) I think it makes the transition into a uni course which uses a lot of maths much easier.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 07/10/2014 14:56

I think it would be useful for most branches of engineering, also some sciences. My DC studied it and now reading economics.

TeenAndTween · 07/10/2014 16:12

Well, I wouldn't have got on my Maths degree without Further Maths

DeWee · 07/10/2014 16:13

Engineering, Physics based stuff, some chemistry based stuff, analysis, maths modelling, a lot of science based subjects basically will study further maths as their maths course in their first year. Dh reckoned he used a lot of stuff he'd done in further maths when he was doing some medical research for his doctorate.

It's where interesting maths starts.

JabberJabberJay · 07/10/2014 16:17

Physics, meteorology, atmospheric science. Further maths would be useful in all of these.

irregularegular · 07/10/2014 16:19

Well, obviously, any degree/career that relies heavily on maths.

It would be close to essential for a maths degree at a top university (though they do make allowances for students who did not have the opportunity to take FM at their school). Also extremely useful for physics, engineering, computer science, economics and (I would imagine) chemistry and more.

It's basically more advanced maths - though also allows for more breadth of topics. In the same way that A-level is more advanced than AS is more advanced than GSCE is more advanced than...And first year undergrad is more advanced than Further maths etc

MelanieCheeks · 07/10/2014 16:19

Definitely physics or any related discipline like astronomy. When I did it there was a lot of advanced calculus, which is what is needed for all those degrees.

TalkinPeace · 07/10/2014 16:41

There is a LOT of stats and data handling in it : therefore useful for any applied engineering / maths / non medicine science degree

GeorgeHerbert · 07/10/2014 19:03

I have 2 nephews who did physics degrees. Both said that the first year would have been very very difficult without having further maths. The few people on the course who didn't had to take additional summer course in 'maths for physics'.

blestawoya · 07/10/2014 19:17

Hi. This is all very enlightening! My DD wants to do Maths at A level and then Economics at university. Sounds as though Further Maths would be very helpful. Is it possible to do Further Maths at A level without doing Further Maths GCSE?

Takver · 07/10/2014 19:20

Would definitely recommend further maths for economics, blestawoya - even in the dark ages when I studied the subject those who had FM were at a distinct advantage.

jeanne16 · 07/10/2014 19:32

She does not need to do Further Maths at GCSE to do it at A level. However I would suggest she only does it if she gets an A* for Maths GCSE otherwise she will struggle.

blestawoya · 07/10/2014 19:41

Thanks Jeanne16 and Takver.

duhgldiuhfdsli · 07/10/2014 19:43

Some computer science degrees are starting to insist on A2 Further Maths, and others are muttering about wanting AS. It's been pretty much compulsory for Maths degrees at the more selective places, ditto physics, ditto engineering, for some years.

Even if you don't fancy the whole six modules, there is very useful content for almost every engineering and computing course in FP1 and FP2 (complex numbers, differential equations and some simple matrix stuff), so someone who does Maths to A2 but drops Further Maths after AS is still stealing a march by doing FP1, FP2 and one other (say D1 or S2).

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 07/10/2014 19:49

I did a physics degree without further maths A level 30 years ago, and even then when less schools offered it so more than half of us hadn't done it, it was a struggle. I spent a third of the first year doing 'Maths for Scientists' which included all the further maths syllabus plus, done at a 'university' rate of knots.

duhgldiuhfdsli · 07/10/2014 19:57

And thirty years ago, Ellen, most A Level syllabuses included complex numbers, some vague matrix/vector notation stuff and first order differential equations if you were lucky. That's now all in FP1 and FP2, so someone doing physics or engineering without it is going to struggle.

This isn't a story of dumbing down, particularly, because there's a load of good stuff for other disciplines that wasn't in A Level back in the day: S1 is a pretty good introductory statistics course, for example, which I suspect biology and psychology are glad to have, whereas the A Level maths I did had essentially no statistics or probability work in it all.

TeenAndTween · 07/10/2014 20:35

to discover that Complex numbers aren't in standard A level Maths!

But pleased to see more stats is in there.

PurplePoppySeed · 07/10/2014 20:46

I did it and went on to study electrical engineering, but it would be useful for any engineering subject as most cover mechanics in the first year!

Not sure of how it works now, but when I did it you could pick modules and concentrate on different things, so all would do effectively a whole A-level in pure maths then pick modules in stats, mechanics and/or decision maths which was a great intro to project management practices - Gantt charts etc.

noblegiraffe · 07/10/2014 21:22

A-level maths was dumbed down. Back in 2004 they removed a load of content and put it in further maths because A-level maths take-up had fallen disastrously low as it was seen to be too hard post-curriculum 2000.

Therefore any mathematical degree at university should require further maths as well as maths, and any sciencey or social sciencey sort of degree should require a-level maths as that's the sort of levels they're suitable for.

However, unis haven't updated their lists of requirements so you get kids going to do geography or whatever having done no maths since they were 16 and kids going to study maths, engineering or physics without further maths. Then unis complain that the kids aren't good enough at maths and that they have to put catch-up classes on.

hellsbells99 · 07/10/2014 22:11

Some schools don't offer further maths. My DD2 is self-studying it at AS level.

duhgldiuhfdsli · 07/10/2014 22:46

Some schools don't offer further maths.

And then invent complex conspiracy theories as to why their pupils' applications are rejected out of hand from certain courses. it's a real failure of British education: the idea that "people like that" don't need to study A Levels that actually lead somewhere.

ElephantsNeverForgive · 07/10/2014 22:51

The first year of a physics degree is very very difficult without further maths, that's why I became a Biochemist

hellsbells99 · 07/10/2014 23:03

My previous post was incorrect. DD's school did have it as an option but as only 4 pupils selected it, the course has not run. Hence DD is self-studying it to AS level.

Dragonlette · 07/10/2014 23:10

I did a Maths degree without FM Alevel (and got a first :)). My school couldn't run the course because so few people wanted to do it. That's still the case for a lot of schools, there aren't enough pupils wanting to do Further Maths to make it a viable subject to run. Some schools barely manage to get enough students to make Maths Alevel viable, I know my last school only ever had 5 students for A2 Maths, and it was a fight every year to be allowed to still run it.

RaisingSteam · 07/10/2014 23:14

Dragonlette I'm gobsmacked at that. No wonder there is an engineering skills crisis.

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