Applying for 6th form- presumably you state which AS levels?

[Tansie]

DS is about to apply for two sixth form colleges.I haven't seen the application form/s yet, but I'd assume he has to state which AS levels he wants to take there.

My question is- is every other Y11 being carefully guided and advised about which AS levels to take? DS doesn't appear to be at all! And the whole thing about Facilitating Subjects doesn't seem to have been raised; to the best of my knowledge, DS hasn't been sat down to discuss what he might apply for and whether they're a good idea or not!

Am I missing something?

I think you have to be very proactive.

• UCAS is a good start - seriously. Look ahead at the types of subject might be appealing at university (assuming that a lot of A level students DO go on to university) and look at the entry requirements.
• specifically ask at open days, 'if I do this subject what else goes well with it' or 'i am thinking of this combination of subjects - what do you think'.
• Go and see the careers staff at the sixth form open evenings and ask them 'if I do this combination of subject what might it lead to'. *Read the Informed Choices leaflet about facilitating subjects
• In my experience (limited!) if you choose one science subject you really need a second, or maths.

My one hard-learnt lesson from DS1: if there's a faint chance you might change your mind and want to do engineering, do further maths.

I think it is unrealistic to expect an 11-16 school to be fully versed in the A level choices a student may have. Sorry word but I disagree with you, I think the onus should be on the sixth form to give the advice. Our local sixth form sees every student for an application interview and again for an enrolment interview let alone several opportunities at open days.

Well I'll tell you why I think secondary schools could and should deal with this; they should already have an eye on this from GCSE options.

Far too many pupils take inappropriate combinations of these. Or far too many, thus diluting their grades.

I think secondary schools should be looking at pupils holistically, rather than as someone to get 5GCSEs to put on their league tables.

It shouldn't be either/or, it should surely be a combination starting, as you say, with GCSE choices. At DD's school they did provide a certain amount of information starting back then.The staff may not have all the answers about all the myriad A-level and other options but surely they should be at least able to point the kids in the right direction to find out, and make them aware that not all A-levels are equal when it comes to university applications.

bird - my DD already knows she almost certainly wants to do engineering - but we hadn't realised how important Further Maths was till I started an MN thread about A level choices. We'd foolishly assumed from our own long-ago A levels that single maths would cover the range of topics just not in so much depth but having looked at the curriculum there's gaping holes if you don't do Further Maths as well. There's topics which are only in the FM which you'd need for Physics too and would be helpful for chemistry if you don't want to have to play catchup.

Well, if schools can't get the GCSE guidance right they're don't really stand a cat in hells chance of getting A level (or other post 16 advice) right do they?

Actually, for what it's worth, I agree that secondary schools should be looking beyond their own GCSE targets but I really don't think they should or could be up to speed on all the post-16 options and the implications of one course combination over another.

Tansie
When you go around the colleges, ask the staff in each department about combinations and options.
Because the schools stop at Year 11 they do not tend to worry about it too much.
The colleges do.
I was lucky that DD had a pretty good idea, but one of her friends who was looking at doing Accountancy and Business studies is now safely on track with Maths and Further Maths.

The first open evening will make it clear what the bad choices are
the second open evening will show what the good choices are
and by the time the taster day comes along after GCSEs the colleges have seen the mocks and are pretty blunt about what will work and not.

The Oxbridge staff at PSC, BP and Brock are also very helpful and have the RG options website that wordfactory mentions in BIG LETTERS in their rooms.

Errol yes a joint approach would be best.

To be honest, many schools that do have a sixth form still seem to offer little decent advice.

It really is a huge issue, that must be easy to crack.

As talkin says, if one college can do it so well, there really is no excuse that so many pupils fall through the net.

Does my nut in.

I suppose what really bugs me, is that we're not talking about complex information here. None of it requires extensive knowledge.

Teachers just need to hand over a leaflet! Or put a poster up as talkin says.

I have to say that it is not reasonable for schools to be au fait with the courses available to all students
there SHOULD be good website information, but it has been cut by government
teachers cannot reasonably be up to speed with Oxbridge requirements as well as those for pig husbandry, hairdressing and yacht building.

I would just be a bit wary with further maths! Friend's DD wanted to do medicine, and FM wasn't recognised as a separate subject from maths, so she needed an extra one! So find out how useful it's likely to be before choosing it! Another good reason for good advice and guidance.

No school needs in depth, extensive knowledge of every course.

They simply need to know in which direction to send a pupil. And they need to have actually spoken to them to know where to send them.

That young people are making decisions about their options without anyone commenting on its possible implication, is really piss poor.

mindgone
the child I'm thinking of got the hat in the GCSE and is now looking at doing a maths degree leading into becoming an Actuary

but yes, for medicine its pretty pointless

I have one just started uni and one just started 6th form. My experience was that there was zero information from their school. None of the local schools have a sixth form and it's as though their job ends with GCSEs.
Having said that the outreach from the local sixth form college was visible if not very helpful.
Truth be told I got most of my advice from Mumsnet.
DS2 has just started Y12 doing 3 sciences and maths. He tried to do history but they were adamant that he couldn't do a "mixed pathway". I offered to make a fuss but he didn't want ti that much.

Can anyone clarify what happens to AS levels in 2016?

My friend has a DC at a Grammar School and he has been told categorically that he can choose only 3 subjects because they won't be doing AS levels and they cannot drop a subject after Y12 (as is common).
Is this correct, has she misunderstood or are there different ideas in different sixth forms?

AS levels are being scrapped. However some subjects are scrapping it sooner than others.

There's nothing to stop schools continuing with them. They just won't count towards the A2.

My concern is that those schools that don't do them will put their students at a disadvantage in their university applications. If other applicants have good AS grades to show off, they will surely be more attractive than a student waving only a predicted grade?

Good question, squirrels, I can't answer it but it will affect my current Y9 DS!

That seems logical, I am sure from DS1s experience that good grades at AS are important for getting offers from good unis.
Surely schools and sixth forms know this though? Why would they put students at a potential disadvantage? Is it cost?

secret I think they're in a tricky position.

The AS exams tend to dominate year 12 when teachers would rather be exploring the subject.
And many students just don't gather enough maturity to do well until year 13.

Obviously league tables often look better without poor AS results on them.

But the truth is, some schools will still do them. At least until they can see how this all pans out.

And if the students at those schools do well, they will potentially be at a distinct advantage.

As far as I know AS are not being scrapped, BUT if you sit AS exams at the end of lower sixth, and continue to A2 you will have to resit those exams with the rest of A2 at the end of upper sixth. Some schools/sixth forms may choose not to enter anyone for AS's, others are going to keep entering people, some may choose to do a mixture.

Universities are complaining - because they can't guarantee on using AS's as part of the application procedure.

Schools often can't provide much advice, because they have limited knowledge and no money to provide specialist staff - the government got rid of Connections, and you are supposed to use a website to get careers advice nowadays.

ASs are NOT being scrapped. They are being phased out as the halfway point of the A level exam, but will continue to exist as stand alone quals in their own right, as indeed they are currently.

For the first cohort, current year 11s (not all subjects though), many sixth form colleges will still put them in for the AS exam even though it won't count towards their A level grade if they are entered for the full A level.

As far a as I am aware a normal load will still be 1 AS level and 3 A levels. AS and first year A level syllabuses are the same so students won't have to decide which subject will be their AS until March of lower sixth when exam entries are made.

Titchy some schools have already decided that they will not be offering an AS to any student in their group.

I was speaking to a Head of History who said exactly that on Friday last.

When I asked what was going to happen to those students when they applied for university she said 'We hope the universities will go back to the old system and rely on predicted grades.'

And I thought hope is a bit much!

I know for a fact that other schools in the same area will still be putting their students in for four AS.

Mind you if Labour get in the policy will be scrapped!

Yes, I'd seen that.

In the meantime there really should be a consistent approach to this. Either all students take them or they don't.