How much say would you give a 12 yr old in choosing a school?

[CambridgeBlue]

We have the 3 tier system here so DD will be moving to Upper School at the end of Y8. Our choice is between 2 pretty good state schools, one the standard feeder option (School 1) and one which is out of catchment (School 2) but which several kids in our village attend so we would probably have a chance of her getting into.

Having been to both open evenings we're really torn. Both schools are well thought of with good results and facilities, the teachers seem enthusiastic and the kids appear to enjoy lessons and be doing well. To me though School 2 just nudges ahead - there's a bit more going on, the facilities are slightly better and it just seems a bit more, I don't know - professional.

DD's classmates are likely to go to School 1, in fact most haven't even looked anywhere else, but I feel she could really do with a fresh start - nothing wrong with her current crowd but we live in a small village, they've been together since nursery and tend to go to the same out of school activities etc. It can feel as though DD is never away from them and I think a wider circle of friends would be better for her.

Trouble is, DD just wants to go where her friends are. She's an only child, quite shy and I know she'd be more comfortable where she knows people.

But I can't help feeling the atmosphere and ethos of School 2 would give her better opportunities and that mixing with a different crowd wouldn't be a bad thing - she'd still be able to see her local friends out of school. I don't think being so reliant on her small group is actually doing her any good.

We will have to make a decision soon and I don't know who should have the final say - I don't want DD to resent us for moving her away from her friends but I think education is too big a decision to be governed by what other people are doing.

Ds went into year 7 this year.

He came to the open evenings and we talked about the pros and cons of the three schools in our area and then his opinion on the schools but the final say came down to me and dh.

He liked another school but we felt the one we picked had better pastorial care and slightly better results.

DD chose her secondary from the small selection we placed in front of her. There has never been a day when she could say "I never wanted to go to this school anyway", or "If it had been my choice I'd have gone to X". It's the one thing we have never had to argue about. I find this an invaluable asset in dealing with teenagers.

How many other children (that DD doesn't know) go to School 1? IF there are a lot of other new children as well, this might be a good thing for a shy child- the opportunity to make new friends, but the security blanket of her old ones (and I imagine the secondary would mix them up, so she wasn't solely put with all children she knew).

I think it would be different if School 2 was streets ahead, but if it's close, I'd let her have the deciding vote (as it were).

We're choosing secondary schools at the moment. While we probably wouldn't send DC to a school they categorcially hated, we will make the ultimate decsion as parents I think.

DC has liked every school apart from one that we have visited though and they're all broadly equivalent on paper. DC has slight preferenfces for one school. We have a preference for another school and seeing he hasn't expressed a strong preference this will probably be where he ends up.

I should add that DC is trying for a superselective too which he adored but due to the numbers he probably has a 1 in 8 or 1 in 10 chance of getting in. I don't actually like the school (but selective v faith v comp has been done to death so not going into it on this thread) but I can't deny it achieves amazing results so like janinlondon we do not want to face a "well if you'd let me go to x school I'd have done better" scenario in future years. This is the only school choice where his opinion will trump ours (he doesn't know we don't "approve" of the school).

None, I also have an only child. We had the choice of two schools, all his mates are going to the other one. The one we choose has an Accelerated learning programme, he sat the entrance exam and got accepted so he's going there ( state school). Children make new friends when they change school anyway, I certainly didn't hang around with my primary school pals much after going to secondary school.

My ds is an only child and we choose the school all his mates weren't going to! It was just the right school for him and he flourished He is at university now and it was absolutely the right school for him

Be careful of trying to get her into a different school just because you think it would be better for her to widen her friendships. It may not be better for her. I think that at 12, you need to talk it all through with her and she needs to be involved in the decision-making.

We were quite keen for DD(15) to go to a different sec to her BFF (who is really lovely and still a great friend) They were joined at the hip and if BFF didn't want to do something, DD wouldn't do it either, despite DD being an outwardly confident, friendly child. This meant she was missing out on sporty stuff which she would have really loved as BFF wasn't into it.
She recently said that she found it incredibly difficult starting without BFF and has had a very tricky time in the last year or so. I do wonder if this wouldn't have happened if they had been at the same school.

I was going to type exactly what redsky has put in better englisht han mine.

DD2 chose to go with her friends, because it made her feel more secure. I fact with setting she's actually with boys she knows and has totally new female friends.

She's found it easy enough to keep in touch with her friend who went to grammar.

However, the big group of village girls, the year below DD1 are horrid to the one girl who did that in their year.

That's the problem, staying friends is a real lottery. If the village girls find themselves in
Lessons together and stay a tight bunch in school, your DD may have a very hard time out of school if she's not with them.

DD went to a school last year where she knew no one. Although she has made new friends, she's found it quite hard that her previous group of friends simply closed over her absence without a ripple and carried on seeing each other through arrangements made at school, leaving her out.

That might have happened anyway, of course. Hard to know.

My ds is now in yr 8 his second year in secondary.
He wanted to be with his friends but ultimately I made the decision to move him to the better school. It is not a decision I have regretted. He's made some lovely new friends and his grades have gone through the roof.
Some of my ds friends who went to the other school moved to ds school half way through year 7 even though they new they were leaving friends behind.

none. i moved DD2 from her original local primary school because the teacher was a bully and they weren't doing anything to help with dyslexia. i didn't consult her then. we moved house just after she started 3rd year (Scotland) and again she got no choice. She did get asked if she then wanted to move to a much, much better school at the start of 5th year. her initial response was no, but after some thought said yes. In life you are never going to always be going where your friends are, and making new friends in new situations is a very useful life skill. Send your DD to the school of your choice - not hers.

If it's close I would give her the final say.

I made the final decision at that age. If my parents had forced me I would have resented it.

I gave my dc the illusion of choice, which works well for everyone!

I think it depends what the choices are. If one is far worse than the others, then letting a 10 year old make the decision would seem a bit daft.

That said, when we were looking for secondary schools for DD, I let her chose a mixed ability school over the selective schools I favoured.

I felt very wobbly about it.

Many friends admitted that they didn't give their DD a choice. And I don't blame them really!

I would let a 12yo have the final choice between two schools that I was 'torn between'. I wouldn't let him/her pick a 'poor' school over a much 'better' one (in my opinion as an adult).

At this age, they are going into a tricky phase in their lives, and want to feel that they are treated with respect. If you can let them feel that way over something that doesn't have a huge cost in terms of their future prospects, then I think you may as well do so.

They will then feel far more 'invested' in their choice, and approach it with a better attitude than if they are muttering under their breath that you 'never listen'.

If there really isn't much in it then I would let her chose at Upper School age. If it's like our Upper Schools then they are all very split up anyway and branch out in new directions as a rule. Having said that some haven't and there are a fair few issues going on in those groups who have bern together throughout middle school vs those who formed at upper.

If your gut reaction is strongly tellng you school 2 is really right for her and she woukd flourish there then I would push school 2, she will adapt - though you may well have a tricky summer and first few weeks.

I think the final choice rests with you. Your DD's opinion is entirely understandable, but you and your DP can look at this with the benefit of many years of life experience and - to put it bluntly - you're the parents and you (hopefully!), know what should be best in the long run. She's 12. What did you know at 12? I know I know pretty much bugger all! So if you feel that school two is the best option I would do your best to explain your choice to your DD and hope that she understands why you would like her to go to that school. FWIW I think you're right to try to broaden her friendship base and horizons. Life is about chance and how we cope with it, among other things, and making a chance now will help to prepare her for the bigger changes later on in her life.

change, not chance

DD1 chose her school when she was 10 in that she wanted to sit the 11+ exam. We are not in a Grammar school area but she wanted to go to this not very local school, so had to work hard for a place.
It would have been easier for her go to the more local school but she did well and got a place, so off she went.
We didn't give DD2 a choice as such, just told her she was going to the same school as her sister and she didn't object but we do get 'I never wanted to go there anyway' sometimes. I always offer to start the process of moving her, but I'm pretty sure she won't take me up on it. It is a better school for her for a lot of different reasons, and she has made friends and enjoys lessons most of the time.

Cambridge:

I agree that you have to weigh up decisions (which clearly for you are biased to educational standing/ standards & I guess general 'feel' of schools - much as DH & I saw it at the time) but I do think your DD should be involved or at least understand the choices you are making.

I feel because DD1 was included in our decision process and we also listened to her concerns (didn't want to travel alone a long way on a bus/ didn't want to go to a 'rough school' she knew of, etc....) she understood it was part compromise and part chance (as it is a decision based on distance and it's hard to know how many have applied who live closer).

HTH

Thanks for all the responses, I am pretty much of the opinion that she should have some say but the final decision will be ours. I don't think a 12 year old is mature enough to decide something so big. If there was a particular subject she wanted that only one school offered, or a more 'solid' reason for picking one over the other then I would be more inclined to consider that, but I don't think that just wanting to follow the crowd is enough to base this on.

That said I hate the idea of her feeling shut out of her local group of friends (although to be honest there's one or two I'd be very glad to see the back of) or that she had no say in her future. God this is hard!

Cambridge:

Genuinely think if you make your logic in the decision clear to her (along the lines of ....this is a better school for sciences (or music/ History/ Drama/ Maths etc...) and after all that's what you want to do when you grow up/ that's what you're really interested in at the moment....) she may have reservations - but usually that helps them at least somewhat see why you're ranking option 2/3 higher than option 1 and not feel excluded.

also - chat to some of the parents - you may find that there are more considering the same thing than you realise.

Agree with illusion of choice.

DS has just started secondary. He wanted to go to the small secondary school where his friends were going but we have sent him to one that is much larger, has a sixth form, a good reputation for pastoral care, a much greater variety of sports and clubs and better results. Last year was really difficult as DS was very set on the one his friends were going to and there were lots of arguments about this. However, he's settling well into his new secondary and has even admitted some classes are fun, and that the sports provision ( he is very sporty) is really good, so I am happy we stuck to our decision and sent him to the one where we felt he would prosper best. I don't think 11 is old enough to make such a big decision.

You must involve a 12yr old as much as possible.There is nothing worse than an unhappy child,at the wrong school for them.Remember academic excellence will not come is child is not happy.