Choosing a secondary school-advice please

[shebird]

So I'm going to open days, I've looked at OFSTED a reports and exam results but I am feeling overwhelmed with responsibility and a bit lost with it all. Are there certain questions I should be asking? What are the most important factors when choosing a school? What should I watch out for? We are not in a grammar school area so the choice is likely to be faith school or outstanding academy. Any advice greatly appreciated.
TIA

Start with the admissions criteria. Do you actually meet the criteria for entry to the faith school? Are you within the distance likely to get into the outstanding academy? (Study this online, in the school and LA website. Teachers at the school will be unable to answer this accurately).

Does the school set or stream ? For all or some subjects? Will this suit your dd?
Can she do triple science if she wants
How many MFL?
Any other subjects she is likely to be interested in? Latin? Mandarin?
Do they do her favourite sports?
Talk to the kids who show you round, get an idea of the feel of the school. How strict, how supportive and nurturing etc.
Is the Heads speech about children and education or a marketing excercise for their massaged stats? (Some academy chains find all sorts of ways to keep stats up!)
What do you see on the walls?

shebird:

I know this is a scary decision because like primary - the secondary choice is where you're child will be for quite a while (at least until GCSEs in 5 years time, if not A-Levels in 7 years time).

But....

This isn't just your choice - you have a young person with ideas/ opinions there too and they will have academic needs/ sports interests/ hobbies that also have to be considered.

I asked myself what I wanted as a parent -

My answer: a good school that will not waste my child's potential, but will be interested in teaching them to a very high standard.

I also accepted that it can't all be down to the school - some some pupils will drop out/ turn off/ not be suited to a more 'academic road' and wanted to understand that the school could also help them.

I looked out where students went onto next (not just results at GCSE/ A-Level). Did a small percentage make Oxford/ Cambridge/ UCL?

Did those who weren't particularly academic go on to vocational college?

Did those who were 'in-between' slip through the cracks or were they supported to navigate what to do next post-senior school?

I also let DD1 have a say. She wanted to go for the 11+ because friends were and she liked the idea of going to the same state-funded grammar school as them.

We also knew that there are very few obviously good senior schools here - so we moved to a location that guaranteed if our grammar school options didn't work out (which ended up being the case) we could be confident DD1 was at a good school (our previous local options were two schools in special measures and poor reputations locally). It sounds to me that you do have good options - so doing something that extreme isn't necessary in your case.

Don't just make this your decision. Your child has to go there - and so should have some input on that choice (be it for friendship reasons/ academic reasons/ avoiding problem children from the previous primary/ etc...)

Do visit the schools with your child and go in with questions (your DC's too) that you want answered (maybe what clubs? maybe about music tuition? resources for SEN? resources for G&T? whatever concerns you - for example one friend chose the school by how they responded to the question my DD1 is on the city's swim team and practice is from 5:30 - 7:30 each morning. It will be very tight to get back to your school in the mornings - how will you handle that? The schools who said that wasn't acceptable were off their shortlist. They found a school that agreed that swimming was their DDs talent and it should be supported - The school said what they would do was give her a pass to arrive late because of her G&T in swimming & make sure she didn't miss out on information/ teaching. And they've kept their word so far).

Finally remember that no school/ no person can ever be fully described by summary statistics on paper. You're not going to know if a school is a happy/ supportive environment from an OFSTED report or a rankings table - talk to parents with children there. Don't be shy about this - it is an important decision. Find out if they're happy with the school - good communication/ doing good things with our kid/ like the extra support when DC was struggling/ etc....

We've got DD1 (now Y7) into a school that is just out of 'needs improvement' verdict from OFSTED but has got >75% of pupils 5 A-C GCSEs for the last decade and is well thought of locally. Birmingham has had rather an interesting time with OFSTED verdicts which have been more about forcing schools to be academies than a fair assessment of teaching/ learning standards (Do remember several of the Trojan Horse schools were declared OUTSTANDING < 1 year before Trojan Horse broke).

We're happy with our choice. It's a stable, happy, productive place with lots going on (sports/ academic clubs like science, maths & poetry/ art & drama clubs/ music groups/ film & cooking clubs/ Duke of Edinburgh scheme etc...) that aims to create well-rounded human beings, ready for Uni or work. For us, that was the clincher.

But do accept - no place is perfect and every choice like this has its pros and cons.

Four things
Specific needs, feel of the place, logistics, DCs preference.

1. DD1 is dyslexic, and at 11, fussy and very prone to getting bullied. An approachable SENCO and good pastoral care were essential.

2. visit and visit again, is the school putting on a show, do you believe it. DDs school lets the pupils show you round, you wander in and out of lessons as they actually are. HT is chatty and genuinely welcoming.

Other we looked round a teacher took us to as 'Ofsted outstanding style show lesson' that would have bored me witless as a teen. The HT vaguely sook our hands looking bored.

3. logistics, 5/7 years is a long time to be stuck with a school run because there is no council, public bus (this is the case for grammar and possibly school with the grumpy head. I think there is a mini bus from here, but they must pay as out of county).

Remember, there is far more after school stuff than you think. I'd love to have the choice of a school where DDs can get home after the bus. There isn't one!

4. DD2 didn't want to try for the grammar.

1. if they do triple science Gcse, does it count as one of their options, or is it squeezed into the same time on the timetable as double science?
2. if double science, do they sit the first half in year 10?
3. how many girls are doing physics A level?

I also wanted a smaller sized school for my child, some near us are very large and a school with a sixth form because I think the teaching standards will be higher.

Thank you all some great ideas to get me thinking. I echo your thoughts Past my main aim is to find a good school that will not waste my childs potential. Of course DD is going to have a big say in the decision and she will make this based on what her friends are doing not GCSE results or science options. I would say DD is a good all rounder academily but it is too early to tell whether she has a particular flair for any particular subject.
Both the academy and faith school are realistic options (catchment and church attendance). The favourite is the faith school based on DDs choice and feedback from parents.

Ask your child which school they would like to go to.If they are unhappy at a school,it doesn't matter how good that schools ofsted is.

When you go to look round, ask the child who's guiding you if they would like their little brother or sister to come to th school. You get som very interesting answers to that question.

Of course DD is going to have a big say in the decision and she will make this based on what her friends are doing

Personally I think 10/11 year olds are not mature enough to have a 'big say' in secondary school decision, especially if they are going to make it 'based on what her friends are doing'.

Fine if you have no strong views between the two. Also fine to listen to her views and consider whether they are well founded.

But then, I am also amazed at the number of parents round where I live who say I went to school A (25 years ago) so my child will go there. With no thought of considering whether A or B will be better for their child.

You should also look at "parentview" on the Ofsted website as that gives you an idea of what the existing parents think of the school - does their child feel safe? Are they happy? How well is bullying dealt with?

I agree Teen, she is certainly not mature enough to choose secondary schools. I guess what I mean is her priorities are a bit different which is why I am doing all the research and open days to make sure we make the right choice together.

Actually DD2 did have the casting vote, she made it quite clear she wasn't going to open a bond reasoning book and do any work.

When I was looking I listened to my DCs opinions. In fact they gave some useful insights. Some teachers are much better talking to parents rather than students (well of 10/11). Sometimes the things that impress parents are not what is important for a student. Sometimes the feel of a place will cause anxiety in a student. Also my children are different people to me, with different interests etc. So children's views should be important.

I have to admit at 10/11 I could still persuade my children to my point of view on most things.

Although I think parentview has to be treated with caution. In my experience (as a school governor) of similar self-selecting surveys, parents are more likely to make the effort of filling in the form/giving their opinion on parentview if they have a gripe, which can hugely skew the figures.

Small sample size is also important. Just looked at the parentview for a school we're looking at for DD, and 9% of parents seem to think their children don't make good progress, the school isn't well led, and it doesn't deal effectively with bullying. That seems quite a lot until you look at how many views it represents - the total number of respondents is 11 (from a school of 640) so that 9% represents one parent. Be wary of making decisions based on these kinds of figures!

So true, Richmal! I've just looked at our four nearest schools on Parentview and even allowing for the small numbers something just doesn't add up.

One school has around 8% of parents 'strongly disagree' that their child 'is happy/makes progress/feels safe', yet only 1% 'would not recommend the school to another parent'.

Eh?