Age-appropriate set texts

[FatMumSlim72]

Hi, I have 3 kids at 3 different schools and they are all reading set texts that I am really uncomfortable with and would love other people's advice! 7 year old having to read Private Peaceful (recommended age 9+), 14 year old had to read Woman In Black (his friends having nightmares now), and now my 16 year old is having to study The Pillowman in Drama (age 18+). I know kids have to be exposed to horror and violence at some stage - but this all seems rather heavy...HELP!!!

Wouldn't have thought that a seven year old would have the reading skills , for this to be a class text . A lot that age just not be able to read at this level.

The older kids , may have read or watched worse than this with there mates . If you feel it's not appropriate speak with the school involved .

ds read Woman in Black in year 7. They didn't watch the film or see the play which are both far scarier.

Is your 16 yr old in yr 11 or 6th form?

Woman In Black is a cracking novel.

Not sure about Private Peaceful - is it being read to them? What year group? As a pp said, surely there would be a lot in yr 2/3 who were unable to access that as a reader.

Really? I've taught Woman in Black for several years and not had a single complaint about nightmares; it is an excellent text for an able year 9. But 7 year old reading Private Peaceful seems very odd. I've never heard of it being taught to that age group.

I haven't read any of the books, so can't comment on the specific texts, but if a book had 9+ on the back, I would expect it only to be given to those who were 9years or older. It isn't as though there is a shortage of books to choose from!

When DD was in Y7, they were reading a set book, can't remember which, and the age for the film was 12+. Those who weren't 12 had to go and sit in the library, whilst the others watched the film.

Woman in Black is a great text for Yr 9/10/11. I've done it several times now and never had complaints.

Would echo a previous question: what year is the 16 yr old in? Once our students get to the sixth form, we are fairly free in our choice of texts in the English department and tend to treat the students as adult readers (reflecting the exam board's expectations, btw). So I often teach Angela Carter's The Bloody Chamber to the U6, and one of the set exam texts this year is Tis Pity She's a Whore which is a seventeenth century play about brother/sister incest. And Chaucer's The Wife of Bath which deals with domestic violence and rape, among other things. My L6 are studying Streetcar - again, domestic violence and rape...

Maybe the classic/older texts are more acceptable because they are less explicit? But the issues they deal with are no less disturbing... However, there are some more modern texts I would think twice before using even with sixth form.

Thanks everyone. The class of 7 year olds is having it read to them by the Headteacher. She knows I'm concerned but I didn't know if I was being unreasonable! The 16 year old is in year 12 now. I had never heard of The Pillowman even though it is well regarded as a play. But it is so brutal and I don't know what duty of care schools have for our kids, and what rights I have to protect my kids from what I consider to be inappropriate images and stories.

Thanks LeBearPolar. That's interesting 16 year olds are treated as adults by schools. I think that's my point really as they aren't adults! Yes, it is important they deal with really hard and real subjects, she has already performed in Be My Baby and done. Monologue about a girl sweeping up her parents bones at Auchwitz, but this Pillowman is about torturing children. Really gruesome... I know they can't always do The Importance of being Earnest but why the focus on such dark themes ?

I had one DS who did private peaceful in year 5 so about 10 and the other DS did women in black in year 8 and the school showed the film with parents permission after they had read it.

Both went down a treat with them and we did discuss them at home. The film was a bit scary though even after the book.

I would object very strongly to Private Peaceful for a 7 year old. Or for any primary aged child actually. The others are fine, IMHO.

DS read Private Peaceful in Y5 . I must confess to not having read it-why is it seen as unsuitable for primary age?

And his class did The Woman in Black in Y6 and then went to see the play!
Didn't seem to bother any of them. It prompted me to read it again-it is fantastic.

"why the focus on such dark themes?"

Good question and perhaps an English teacher or two will answer?

Summer-born DD had a Morpurgo box-set and read PP in Y3 when she was seven, but I'm definitely not suggesting that's right for any other child (or their parents). I'm genuinely curious to know why so much has to be provocative semi-PSCHE stuff.

I must admit I hadn't heard of The Pillowman before this thread and, having googled it, it certainly isn't a text I'd choose to teach.

However

I'm genuinely curious to know why so much has to be provocative semi-PSCHE stuff.

It is hard for English teachers to avoid addressing emotional and psychological issues, if that's what you mean by provocative semi-PSHE stuff. Many of the best texts require us to explore the question of what it means to be a human being interacting with other human beings, what it means to live in this world. Skellig - a wonderful novel by David Almond - deals with the critical illness of a baby, A Monster Calls by Patrick Ness looks at bereavement. Do you really want your child not to have the opportunity to explore these issues in a controlled context through the relatively safe medium of literature?

We don't focus on dark themes but we choose the best texts and, whether you like it or not, part of what makes them memorable and powerful is the way they explore both the dark and light of human nature. I'm currently teaching The Lord of the Flies to my Yr 10 and they are gripped by Golding's exploration of what happens when the thin veneer of civilisation is peeled away.

This is an interesting article on the topic - I think the original outcry against Mogadishu began with a MN thread...

Mrs Schofield's GCSE - written by Carol Ann Duffy in response to one of her poems being removed from a GCSE anthology after complaints that it glorified knife crime.

You must prepare your bosom for his knife,

said Portia to Antonio in which

of Shakespeare's Comedies? Who killed his wife,

insane with jealousy? And which Scots witch

knew Something wicked this way comes? Who said

Is this a dagger which I see? Which Tragedy?

Whose blade was drawn which led to Tybalt's death?

To whom did dying Caesar say Et tu? And why?

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark - do you

know what this means? Explain how poetry

pursues the human like the smitten moon

above the weeping, laughing earth; how we

make prayers of it. Nothing will come of nothing:

speak again. Said by which King? You may begin.

Thanks again. And yes I would agree with Carol Ann Duffy! But interesting too that as an English teacher you wouldn't teach Pillowman, Le BearPolar. It does feel like a crossing of a moral line into a world that I still want to shield my DD from even though she is 16. As a 42 year old I can choose not to go and see such a play - she doesn't have that choice, so I am choosing to speak on her behalf. Of course I want to give them all freedom and exposure to 'real-life', but this seems too much too soon. (btw Marni23, Private Peaceful is about 2 brothers fighting in the First World War, and one facing execution by firing squad for having disobeyed orders to go and help his injured brother. Perhaps some will let it wash over them, others may be able to make sense of it, but it is a massive risk that some will be really distressed by it imho)

Yes, I did Lord of the Flies as a Year 10 and thought it was fascinating. I really am not completely into wrapping kids in cotton wool, honestly! I just wonder at the seeming disregard for their internal worlds.

I had a very interesting discussion with the librarian at dds secondary school. We were bemoaning the lack of fiction for children between 10 and 14 who don't want a diet of violence, tragedy and fantasy. If you look at the shelves of the teen fiction section of Waterstones, it is mainly black covers with gruesome pictures or blood dripping or aliens. What happened to decent fiction which doesn't rely on the shock factor?

I'm absolutely sure my dd would have struggled with Private Peaceful at age 7, read it in Year 5 though and loved it. She is the youngest in her year and I think that makes a difference too...

I haven't actually read the other two books so I can't comment on their appropriateness, but I do think there are some peculiar choices for school texts going on.

My kids are older now so not so much an issue (I haven't censored even the 15 year old's reading for a couple of years now, I'm a bit taken aback by the desire to "shelter" someone who's old enough to be married from school reading material). But what I found when I had an 8,9,10 year old whose reading age was up at "adult" was that older books were more likely to be about things they were interested in. Modern YA was about relationships and GCSEs and trials for football teams. Older books at the same reading level were things like Swallows and Amazons, The Hobbit (and LotR for DS who was determined to read it), The Dark Is Rising...

I think sometimes kids get given more "extreme" set texts because it's easier for them to say something sensible about them - they don't have to worry so much about the really subtle nuances and they're more likely to remember dramatic events than mundane ones.

As an English/Drama teacher I would NOT teach Pillowman. I did this as part of my degree and found it deeply disturbing as a 20 year old. At 15/16 I really do feel that you lack the emotional maturity to properly deal with the themes it explores. So many other great plays out there that are modern, exiting and edgy that you could use instead. Really poor choice.

Private peaceful- we use this with year 7/8. Another great text stolen by primary! I think studying it too young means the interesting theme of sibling love rivalry will be skimmed over. Bit of a waste.

Then The Woman in Black...the best of this bad bunch. Not a great work of literature IMHO, but who am I to say what is worth studying...I wouldn't use it but I wouldn't worry about the content. Poe (who is definitely worth studying!) is far more disturbing and gory, but with prose that gives the potential for really interesting and in depth analysis.

Yes completely agree that children are being rushed through literature and films and then see quite grown up texts as babyish as they've already read/seen them. My dds friend has seen all of the Alien films at 10. What does she go onto as she grows up??

"Another great text stolen by primaries"

Oh, I so agree with this. Mumsnet is full of parents trying to push their child on with reading by giving them wildly inappropriate books. And usually it's all about the parent's ego. Makes me sooo cross. There was a 7 yeqr old reading The Mill on the Floss recently. Grrrrrrrrrr.

There was a 7 yeqr old reading The Mill on the Floss recently.

There are SO MANY brilliant, age and content appropriate books that contain challenging vocabulary and beautiful prose that there is simply NO NEED to go 'too old' with what you give your child.

Saying that, I read all kinds of books above my age range- only one given to me by my father...Portnoy's Complaint. Pretty sure he'd forgotten about the threesome and frequent use of 'cunt' in there when he gave it to me.

Seriously though, Pillowman for GCSE. Unbelievable.

I agree with the irritation at texts being 'stolen' by the primaries/prep schools (sorry but I teach in a 13-18 independent school). A lot of my Yr 10s have read Lord of the Flies before which means they must have done it in Yr 8 or below as we don't teach it in Yr 9. It's always been a KS4 text and needs to be, I think, if they are going to grasp the extraordinary beauty and horror of Golding's exploration of the human psyche.