Scholarship to Charterhouse (6th form)?

[Treasa123]

Hi,
My dd will be going into the Irish equivalent of Year 12 next year and she isn't satisfied with her school at all. It doesn't test her academically and it will not get her into the university the wants to go to. She has been asking for a while if she can attend Charterhouse (starting September 2015) but that would only be possible if she gets a scholarship. I am a single mother of four with a yearly income of £19550 so as much as I would love to be able to afford to send her there I simply cannot afford it.
She is a bright child having recently received 12As in her junior cert (irish equivalent of GCSEs) the highest result in the country. She is also sporty, she competes on the Irish swim team although she has never played most of the sports played by Charterhouse (cricket,lacrosse,fives etc.) because they're not available in our area. She also received a distinction in her classical piano diploma from the London College of Music.
She has been working two part time jobs for a year and the application fee alone was 3 months of her wages. We are not able to fly over to see the school but I am confident that she has made the right choice for her. However I was wondering if anyone knew if there are scholarships available for sixth form. And if it's not a full scholarship would financial aid be available to cover the surplus?
Thanks

Treasa - well done to your DD. She sounds like a very busy, resourceful young lady.
You need to call the bursar at Charterhouse, explain your situation and ask what financial help is available. They may have scholarships, but you are actually looking for a bursary which would probably be based on your income.
Why did she choose Charterhouse? I don't think that it is considered to be terribly academic and may not provide enough stretch. I am sure more experienced voices will be along to suggest others...

Well done to you and your daughter and I hope your conversation with the Charterhouse bursar brings some good information. A school you should definitely look at is Christ's Hospital in Horsham, Sussex. The reason for that is that they have a long and proud history of providing heavily or fully subsidised boarding education. Things have become financially tighter at CH (eg they now actively market to full fee payers whereas there actually used to be an income cap on families) in recent years but that is still their ethos.

Finally, if your daughter's plans to move school don't work out then please help her to realise that is not the end of getting into the university she wants. I would hope that she is looking at the very top universities in the UK, including Oxbridge, and those universities do take account of school background in an effort to reach pupils who have succeeded despite rather than because of their school. There isn't anything wrong with being proactive either - if she has an idea of what she wants to study and where then a letter or email to the department, admissions or tutors to ask how she can prepare herself given school limitations might well get a useful response and contact from at least some. It doesn't guarantee success in the final application but it shows interest, motivation and determination and admissions tutors (rightly) love that because they are going to be teaching the students they take.

Charterhouse Sixth Form Scholarships outlined here. They can be accompanied by a bursary.

"I don't think that it is considered to be terribly academic and may not provide enough stretch."
Im no great fan of Charterhouse but as 93% got A*-B I very much doubt it could be be described as not "terribly academic"! It offers the Pre U which is considered significantly harder than A levels.

""I don't think that it is considered to be terribly academic and may not provide enough stretch."
Im no great fan of Charterhouse but as 93% got A*-B I very much doubt it could be be described as not "terribly academic"! It offers the Pre U which is considered significantly harder than A levels."

This is one of those more experienced voices I mentioned. I bow to superior knowledge, although Charterhouse would not be on my list of academic powerhouses based on experience doing Oxbridge admissions.

Why not call around half a dozen of the top schools and explain the situation? She is definitely scholarship material for all the top schools here, which will then open up the bursary route. Given your income and her having the top results in the country, I think you will find the schools will waive the fee and be very keen to take a look at her. Better that than putting all your eggs in one basket.
My list for her would have Wycombe abbey, CLC, Kings Canterbury, Marlborough, Brighton College, and perhaps Oundle and Uppingham on it.

I also hope she is looking at the likes of Oxbridge, Harvard and Yale for university. She will so love sharing her tutorials with people as bright as she is.

What ever school you choose you really ought to look at at the very least a few. Websites/prospectuses are marketing tools, schools spend a fortune writing them to attract both parents and children, you cannot get a feel for a school, just by reading alone, you need to visit them, talk to the staff, meet the other children, look at two or three preferably go back a couple of times to a couple you really like so that you can make good comparisons. There are many excellent boarding schools, many have impressive results, manicured grass, historic building, articulate, intelligent children and wonderful facilities but IMO choosing the right boarding school isn't about this. I can name two schools both very well known one exceedingly well known with wonderful everything that I personally wouldn't put the dog in let alone my DS. I can also find you threads on here where people were completely underwhelmed by my DS's school, but we like it. Your daughter is obviously very bright and capable, and very desirable to many schools so bursary or not your likely to have a many who will offer her a place so take time to find the one that feels right for you. It's a huge jump for your DD leaving Ireland and coming to the UK to a boarding school so however bright she is she must be happy at school.

Three things to consider:

1. The very academic schools will be inundated with applications from the very bright from across the world. If you are looking for a bursary/scholarship you may have a better chance elsewhere.

1. Because of the international interest you may find some schools limit bursaries/scholarships to within geographical areas. Again you might have a better chance if, say, they were limited to within the EU.

1. A school with a broader intake will not get as good results but this does not mean that it does not deliver as good an education. The important thing is that bright children get to where they should go. (Actually that all children realise their potential and are able to take the appropriate next steps.)

A good boarding school will offer a lot more than straight academics, especially in sixth form. Schools taking girls in the sixth form, in particular, can be real fun, as long as the girl is reasonably robust. Some hot-housy type schools can be difficult, if not outright dangerous, for some girls, plus there is the issue of it being difficult to break into existing friendship groups, especially if the majority for new sixth form entrants come from outside the EU. And perhaps if a girl has not previously had a single sex education. One advantage of girls-in-sixth-form places is that teaching and pastoral structures will (or at least should) be based on integrating new girls into the life of the school.

For what its worth a friend whose first son had a difficult time at one of the very big name, academic, boys schools, is very happy with Charterhouse. Her younger son has really thrived both academically and socially. If his peers are anything like him, and he seems to have a good group of friends, it really is worth looking at.

my dd had a scholarship to Charterhouse. they have a very nominal value so it's a bursary you need to be asking for as a scholarship on its own won't be enough.

dustylaw We were looking at Christs Hospital because my niece is in Year 13 there at the moment and she has nothing but good to say about it. But after speaking more to the school and to my niece we realised that it wouldn't suit my dds personality at all.
thereshallbeasparin Her dream is to attend an Oxbridge or an Ivy League university. Kings College is certainly a school she was looking at and they seem very eager to meet with her. They even offered to extend the registration date if we needed more time but my dd doesn't know anyone who has attended there and she would like to know what life is really like there as opposed to their prospectus and website etc because they can often be sugarcoated. We will certainly look at the other schools aswell though so thank you.
I think her main concern about Charterhouse is that she has been told by a friend of hers who's in year 13 there at the moment that the students there are quite.... Elite (for want of a better word.) I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone with children there and in no way am I saying that what she has been told is true but she is under the impression that the students there don't really like students from lower income families so she is quite worried about that. She usually has no problem making friends but she is afraid that she may be 'below' them somehow.

If I were you I would start a thread with all the schools that you are interested in named in the title.

I wonder if St Leonards (St Andrews) might suit her.

joanofarchitrave We will definitely check it out! Thanks

Sevenoaks school is supposed to be amazing.

Lots go to Oxbridge and Ivy League. By some standards it's said to be the best school in the country.

Hard to get in though.

I know (but am not connected to) kings reasonably well, and know a fair few of the staff. The school is great. I don't know of any unhappy children there. Head is very committed and the staff I know are lovely and passionate and the kind you want to look after your children. I asked one 16 years old about bullying recently and he looked at me as if I were mad then said he was sure there must be a policy somewhere but couldn't imagine why it would ever be needed. Grounds lovely, Canterbury as safe as a city of that size can be. More drama/music/sport than you can shake a stick at. And not snobby in the slightest. Kids seem fairly grounded, know they are lucky to be having their education. If I were to think of downsides I would say they are not as forward as they could be with regard to use of technology in classroom (iPads etc), some of the music practice rooms aren't all that, and library is right at far end of 'campus' so probably not as well used as it might be if it were more central. And it doesn't have the 'name' in the way that charterhouse and Marlborough do.
If Peter Roberts/Rory Reilly (he's just retired now) were extending the registration for you it would have been done out a genuine belief that your DD would do well there and was well-suited.
(Take all of above with pinch of salt of course, I have my own thread going about getting my DS into Eton!! But its Kings for my other DC)

I write as someone who went through the Irish Junior Cert, Irish Leaving Cert and Oxford, although that was Oxford as a postgrad not an undergrad.

First, 12 As in the Junior Cert is not really the equivalent of 12 As at GCSE. Okay, maybe it is the equivalent of 12 As, but not 12 A*s, IYSWIM. A smart student with good teachers who works relatively hard should be able to get those grades. The Junior Cert is not the same standard as GCSE - unsurprisingly, as it is sat by 15 year olds after three years of secondary school whereas GSCEs are sat by 16 year olds after five years of secondary school.

Secondly, why you are jumping from Ireland to Charterhouse rather than looking at a fee-paying Irish secondary school, given that the fees are a lot lower in Irish fee-paying schools and the curriculum would be more familiar? I think it would be a real struggle doing A-levels from Junior Cert standard. Although I do note that you are envisaging your DD as doing one year of Leaving Cert studies before moving across, do not expect a smooth transition. At this stage it's worth thinking about what four subjects your DD would be planning to do for A-level and comparing where she is with the GSCE standard, e.g. by looking at GSCE past papers, marking schemes, etc.

Thirdly, you mention that the school your DD is at won't get her into the university she wants to go to. Is that Trinity College Dublin, or is it Oxbridge or is it Harvard/Yale/Columbia? If you look at undergrad admissions to Oxbridge from Ireland it is generally single digit, e.g. Oxford 2013 had 97 Irish domiciled applicants of whom 9 were admitted. That's much lower than the 23% acceptance rate for UK applicants, especially given that the small number of Irish applicants will inevitably be the top rank academically. Do I think Oxbridge discriminates against non-UK applicants - yes, certainly, otherwise it would be flooded with them. Will your DD have a better chance applying to Oxbridge from a UK independent school like Charterhouse than from an Irish school - almost certainly, but will her chance still be that high, I doubt it. I can't speak in relation to the top tier American universities, but I think further down there will be plenty of American universities that might be generous to your daugher, esp because of swimming and music and because of Irish connections. Oxbridge is not a very friendly place for Irish people, to be very frank, and the only girls sport that counts for much is rowing. For colleges singing ability (for choir) is more important than piano aptitude.

It is perfectly possible to do a degree in Ireland, do well, and then go on to do a postgrad in Oxbridge or the U.S. or anywhere else in the world. It's a well-trodden route. I didn't even have a first in my undergrad and I got into Oxford. When parents have a really bright child they can sometimes feel that they have to do everything they can to support their academic dreams. However, I know from experience close to home that this is not always the best thing for their child. I don't know your DD so I have no idea how she is placed, but I suggest that you think carefully about any decisions.

Retrobot has said everything which I wanted to say and would agree with (I'm also Irish so have experience of both systems). It is a fairly drastic leap for your dd to think she needs to leave Ireland in order to be academically challenged and get into the university of her choice. Have you looked at any of the top Irish schools?

Choosing schools in another country on the basis of their website is a very dubious proposition. I would really, really advise coming to visit at least a few of the schools in which she is interested. Are you sure your dd will be able to cope with both the change of country and change of education system? Charterhouse e.g. only admits girls in 6th form and is still very boy-heavy so only suits certain types of girls, you won't necessarily pick that information up from the website or anecdotal evidence.

Bear I'm mind that even if your dd gets a full bursary you still need to find money for extras at school and, in your case, money for flights home at least several times a year.

I also hope your dd didn't actually spend all that money on applying to a school without at least phoning the bursar to discuss financial aid.

As a parent who looked at Charterhouse for their DS, can I offer you the following:
We dismissed it because we live in Scotland and needed full boarding. It appears that the school is more of a weekly boarding school and therefore empties out considerably at the weekends. This is not good if your child is unable to come home every weekend. They also had no other pupils from Scotland, in fact we found them most surprised that we would look at them as a possible school (the school was recommended to us through DH work colleagues) and once there we asked ourselves the same question as it did feel a bit provincial compared to some of the other Public schools we had seen that had a greater international feel about them. Last and certainly not least we didn't like the boarding houses. We looked at both the new and old boarding houses and didn't really like either. A couple of the boys we spoke to also criticised the food heavily which put my son off as good food was high on his list. Obviously this is all personal but I don't think we would have got any of that feel from a website or prospectus.

Someone up thread recommended St Leonard's in St. Andrew's in Scotland, can I just add my tuppence worth to that too. Many of the Scottish Independent schools would probably welcome your daughter with open arms but again you need to beware. Some are better than others but location is probably the biggest factor for you. Your daughter would need to be able to get to her school, by herself, from the airport and if she needs to catch a train from Edinburgh city centre to somewhere like St. Leonard's (in St. Andrew's) that is all extra time and extra expense that may not be taken into account for any bursary offered and would eat into any Exeat weekends too.

As others have said, think seriously about Ireland first, see if she can get what she needs locally as moving to a boarding school where you need to fly backwards and forwards is time consuming, expensive and can be quite scary if you are doing it alone. We had the benefit of a whole group of boys flying from Scotland to Heathrow for the school we chose in the end for our DS which made it easier for him and less frightening for us the parents. The other drawback of them being far away is being unable to attend various events. If you want to attend a play they are in you need to stay overnight as the last flight has invariable left before the end of the show and the time you would need to factor in to get to the airport so again very expensive. Many things you can just not attend but you would want to come for parents meetings and prize givings etc so you need to budget for that too.

I'm sorry if this all sounds very negative, I don't mean it to, I just want to give you a realistic viewpoint from someone whose son goes to school in London but doesn't live locally. I wish your daughter every success wherever she decides upon.

OP Have you considered any of the schools in the North. Methodist College in Belfast had (still has?) a good track record in sending to Oxbridge, has a boarding house and at least is a train/bus ride from home rather than a flight... (It is interdenominational.)

Joining Charterhouse as a girl in the 6th form is tricky. They have more than enough applications to fill their spaces and send 10-15 pupils to Oxbridge,it does empty out Sat afternoon though.