Choosing secondary school - how on earth?

[richmal3]

DD is in yr5 so we're just about to embark on the choosing a secondary school adventure. We live in a quite socially deprived town with 4 unremarkable schools, two of them single sex. There are a couple more a few miles outside town which DD might or might not get into. She's very bright but struggles socially, and this is more of a worry to me than how she'll get on academically.

We've already visited several, and I find myself more confused than ever. Academic results are similar in all of them (about 50% 5 A-C GCSEs). I'm finding myself distracted by stuff like uniform policy (which seems crazy but one of them has a policy for how many cm wide the tie knot should be, and how many cm down the shirt front it should hang. I think 5 years of that would send me insane, never mind DD).

How to choose? Single sex or mixed? Town or country? Bigger or smaller? I'm inclined against academies but that only leaves one possibility (which could of course convert at any time anyway). They're all equally difficult to get to as we don't have a car, none are within walking distance, and buses and trains are equally expensive, so that's not really a factor. I'm sure when we've seen them all, DD will have a view on it but it would be useful to know if there are factors which people think are really important, which we might not have considered. Help!

Look at what your DD really likes/is good at.
Do any of the schools have a specialist status in anything your DD may want to study?
Do they have special facilities for a specific area of study and/or extra curricular activity your DD may particularly enjoy/benefit from?
If your DD is very bright, what facilities/arrangements do the schools have for enrichment etc eg could she do triple science if she wanted, is there an opportunity to study more than one foreign language if she wanted to, are the students streamed/put in sets for particular subjects?
we are just going through the process with my DD - it is a nightmare

Which one can you picture your DD in....it's that simple if there is no other obvious reason which has already grabbed you or put you off. We have done this with every school so far and it has worked well.

1. You have a whole year before you have to make any decisions. Keep an eye on the local newspapers - stories about local schools often give you some idea about the school - i.e., do they focus on sport successes, drama... Really, you don't need to worry at the moment. Save the stress until next September.

1. Remember that in practice your dd will probably only have a chance of a place in a couple of the schools.... and that's if you're lucky.

Sorry, just realised I mistakenly said DD was in yr 5 - only noticed when I read message from jeee saying we had a year before we had to choose. She's in yr6 so we have only a few weeks to decide.

In terms of which school she could realistically get into, she could easily get into any of the three town schools which are all undersubscribed, could definitely get into one of the out of town ones, and possibly into another, so we certainly have a realistic choice of 4, possibly 5.

Unfortunately the one which is a bit iffy in terms of getting in is the one I would probably prefer - small, rural, just felt much more friendly and I could really see my DD doing well there. I guess we have nothing to lose by putting it down first since all the other schools are undersubscribed so she would certainly get her second choice if she didn't get in. So it's more a question of which to put down second, knowing that that's probably going to be the one she gets....

Save the stress yes, but not the visiting, our two local secondaries often have their open days the same date.

In the end I think run of the mill comps are much of a muchness. So visit, see which you, your DD feels most comfortable in.

DD1 would have loathed single sex (she's a geek and her BF at primary was a boy who shared her Dr Who obsession)

DD2 would have done well in either.

All our secondaries are academies, I don't think it makes much odds and sadly there is no specialism money any more, although DDs school still beifits from facilities built when their was.

Uniform is just a time and money wasting pain in the neck. Why on earth they can't wear jeans and a hoodie (which is what 200 DCs turn up in to large county music events) I can't understand.

(DD2's usless, expensive jumper is falling apart, her other has already gone in the bin)

Visit! Now is a good time to start, go to the open days, evenings, talks etc. for year 6, to get a feel for the schools and what they offer.

Then after October half-term and before Easter ish, go and visit on a normal school day. Collect prospectuses. Find out who got in last year. (Later on find out who got in this year.) Talk to the primary school head, to get their view on schools and to see if your DDs year is likely to be a big year or a small one (can affect chances of getting in).

I wouldn't take your DD to see until next September time, by which time you should have a good idea on what you like/don't like.

Oh, so you actually do have choice. Yes, definitely put down the 'iffy' one first (assuming that you actually like it the best). It's also worth remembering that if you don't get it you can always try an appeal.

But as to your second choice I think you need to go for a mixture of you, and your DD's, gut reaction.

Also, at least where I live, the majority of children are very happy in their secondary schools, even if they don't get the first choice. Or in fact their second or third choice.

If you are in year 6, then you need to get a move on. Visit all you can, talk to her about her opinion, and make sure you put down your most realistic choice (unless you absolutely hate it and have a plan B incase she only gets offered it/or a worse school far away).

In England schools have to operate an equal preference admissions system, which means they offer based on their admissions criteria which cannot take into account where you placed them on your list. Your preference is only taken into account after they have ordered all who state a preference for them according to their admissions criteria.

I would always put your true first choice first on your form, and your "I will/should definitely get in" choice somewhere in your preferences.

richmal3

My advice is don't be dazzled by uniform or homework policy - if they're not enforced (any many schools have strict policies but don't abide by them) then it's all hot air (effectively advertising) meant to impress prospective parents.

50% to A-C at GCSE including English/ Maths isn't stellar - but it isn't awful - what you need to find out is do they get any to B or A or even A*. What percentage is that.

So for example we have a friend who's child went to a very mediocre school (now in special measures) but she got all A*s on her GCSE's and has been accepted to a local grammar school for A-Levels. She was in top sets where she had a lot of support/ encouragement - she was given extra work and thoroughly enjoyed her classes & teachers there.

Reputation: nice school/ lots of clubs and activities/ values learning is probably more important - so ask parents with older children.

As you say your DD is very bright and not strong socially - so investigating options further afield may be a good thing. Better school/ fresh start with similar bright new friends may put her in the environment she needs (an environment where enjoying learning is rewarded and 'normal').

Finally - realise that there's no 'perfect' choice. It's always a compromise - so chose the one that fits best with your life logistically and your aspirations for your child/ which also is acceptable to your child.

HTH

Yes, there is absolutely no perfect choice.

Even DFs who can afford private are limited to the schools that run a bus service as they have younger DCs to consider.

Also beware of putting too much store on one years figures. DDs schools aren't good this year, it's not a particularly bright cohort and English marking was really harsh.

(We are the edge of a grammar school area, when the birth rate falls they drop their pass mark, not their numbers).

At the moment trying for the grammar is fashionable in our feeder schools, for many years no one bothered.

Even in a large school relatively small numbers of bright DCs can make a huge difference to what headline grades look like. Even more so at A level.

Even without the complication of grammar schools remember the children in those GCSE figures choose their school 6 or 7 years and, at least two Ofsted reports ago.

In DD1's five years at senior school it's gone from, Good with outstanding features, to Satisfactory, to Special Measures (for just over a year) and back to good!

This mess (I know people who went elsewhere during SM) combined with birth rate means numbers (funding) and abilities entering Y7 have been and will remain all over the place.

My son has just started in year 7. We attended a parents induction evening last week and the biggest two worries were about travelling safely and making friends. Ask how they enforce their bullying policy. I would advise making the journey to each school as you may eliminate one because of the journey. Just think of what it is like on a dark winter afternoon to get home form there. In even the most mediocre schools with support clever children will do well. Parental intervention is a very important factor in how well your children do in school. Good luck.

TELL ME ABOUT IT!

We have one super selective, 2 faith schools which are "our" faith although won't score many churchy points, 2 faith schools which aren't our faith at all, 2 comps plus 2 schools that do fair banding (i.e. complete lottery). One which would be the front runner is single sx mwhich I don't think I like. The 2 comps are distance based which may be a problem and one of them has had three rubbish Ofsteds - wouldn't normally base a decsion on Ofsted but I think this school may be close to breaking point.

Then there is the journeys, where friends are going, what extra curricular stuff is offered AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

On the plus side, thanks for starting this thread as it has been very helpful!

I second (third? Fourth?) the visit and see advice.

My instinctive reaction to your choices was if you are more concerned about friendships than academics, pick a mixed school. Friendship groups in single sex can be very intense - somehow the gender mix seems to knock the edges off that a bit.

The thing is, 'small' may not be ideal if your daughter is a bit of an oddball socially. In a bigger school there's more chance of finding another oddball or two to get on with.

Look at the lunch clubs and see if any match up with her interests. DS made most of his friends at ukulele and drama club. DD spent much of her first term at knitting club!

Smaller schools also sometimes mean more restricted options later at GCSE, and fewer sets. DS was at a huge school with 10 maths sets, so that top set were mostly very bright indeed.

That's not intended to put you off the smaller school that you favour at the moment. If you like it, put it down.

Look at the kids at the end of the day. Notice how they behave and if that is what you want your dc to be.

Well, it's a factor, Twentyten, but remember that any 11 to 16 mixed school will have its share of the very large, hairy and loud, which can come as a shock to current owners of small shy 11-year-old girls.

I have to agree about the journey to school. Mine has just gone into Year 7 and the biggest worry amongst all the parents was:

1. will they be safe getting there and back
2. will they make friends

In my case my DS seems to have found a previously untapped well of common sense re the journey so its all good so far!

I feel your angst as we are going through the same at the moment. We have a very high achieving ofsted rated outstanding school about a mile and a half away from us. It is doubtful we would get in on distance as in the last 3 years allocations have only been within 1 mile. They do allocate 20 places based on an aptitude test for languages but last year over 300 children took the test so have to be lucky to get in top 20. Initially, we thought this would be the only school we would be interested in but when we went to see it we were underwhelmed with it. By contrast we visited two other schools in the area that have not long come out of special measures. One has a 50% a*-c the other just 42%. We loved both of them far better than the ofsted rated outstanding one as they had such a nice warm friendly feel to them. Both schools have plans in place to improve over the next 5 years. Both are undersubscribed I guess due to the past problems. Our dd would probably do well wherever she went as she is bright and looking at high level 5s across the board possibly level 6 in maths. We haven't made up our minds yet as dd wants to do the aptitude test and we will have a massive dilemma on our hands if she does get offered one of the 20 places available. We will have to see. Test is next week with ranking advised on 17 October.

Ds1 had friendship issues in primary. He got on better with girls than boys and was a proper science geek. He is also very bright.
We selected a school that had a science specialism, mixed sex and fabulous pastoral care.

We avoided the school where the teachers didnt listen to ds1 and talked at him rather than with him.

Ds2 needed a school with great pastoral care and good sen provision. We wanted him to have the option of triple science GCSE and found a school that suited him.

Dd has just gone into yr5, we have to do it all again!

I think you can see quite a lot by looking at the Head Teacher and I managed to corner a couple on school visits last year. They seem rare these days, but one with intelligence in their eyes and a decent sense of (necessarily trench) humour would edge me towards their school. But if they're a bit of a patronising bureaucrat...