Second Appeal Hearing Help/Advice Please...

[RockinHippy]

We've finally just got a date for our second appeal hearing

• for those of you that don't already know - This is after a long,next remedy stressful drawn out farce, which ended with the local government ombudsman upholding our complaint against the LA & Appeal itself on several counts & pretty much agreeing we should have won our first, medical grounds appeal to get DD into our closest/easiest to get yo school.

2 things I'm not happy about with this appeal date letter & I'm needing to know what my rights are & what I can insist on.

1. The letter gives a date - but no time - the date is less than 2 weeks away

Letter just says time will be confirmed in due course - not impressed at all by this as we intend to/need legal help with this second hearing as I do not trust our LA to play fair at all anymore - We have the offer of legal help/lawyer from a local children's disabilities charities for our second appeal hearing, but naturally we need to be able to tell them a time too - is there any guidelines on this that our LA should be following ???

2.The way the letter is written, they are obviously intending to use our original appeal evidence for this hearing/appeal panel too.

One of the MANY issues with our original appeal was that the copy of my evidence sent to me, was a complete indecipherable mess - it also included reams of print offs of emails between myself & our MP & people he emailed on to - where I had asked for help with what I still believe was an error in the original assessment - this in itself was repeat copies of the same emails & made for a thick wad of unnecessary & very confusing paperwork that had nothing to do with the appeal.

Much if the rest if the evidence was printed off extremely badly too, 1 page doctors letters on the second page of info booklets etc & I found it difficult to follow - & I'd sent it in in its correct easy to follow format.

I did complain about this at the time & it was meant to have been sorted out, but by the appeal & ombudsman complaint outcome - I suspect it never was, or at least not properly.

I wasn't to resubmit all this evidence again myself - printed off & bundled up in the correct order, so that I know for sure that it is correct this time - this includes a slightly newer, recently updated version of an important information booklet which I ordered earlier this week.

Can I insist on doing this ??

TIA

Thank you all for the further replies, apologies for my slow reply, I did read them all earlier, but Im having some server problems since updating my iPad to the IOS8 thing,

I've tried a couple of times after posting in a couple of other threads & it kept crashing half way through & my stress levels were already through the roof due to the appeal, so I had to step away a bit, think I needed to step away calm down a bit anyway as this whole situation has my blood pressure through the roof & I realised I just wasn't coping well, started to feel like a mouse toyed with by a big nasty cat & felt I was losing the plot a bit I put the appeal to one side fir a few days & concentrated on trying to cheer up DD more. it's her birthday this week, so I took her out for lunches etc ahead if it, not so easy at the moment as still struggling with crutches, but I think it did us both a bit of good :)

Thank you for your explanations of how the appeal should have gone & should go in future - that's all very useful

They guy who was Rotweiller like was the "lay person" the other panel members seemed okay, but he definitely took over & lead the show - he was a bit harsh at the plenary hearing, but not with the LAs rep, but other members of the schools panel, mainly the HT, but nothing like as bad as he was with me & he was very polite with the LAs rep at our hearing, just asking the occasional facts & figures, so not really treating us equally & had I known about the eye rolling I would have raised that with the LGO too.

I do get though that they have to wheedle out fact from trying it on & I even said to the panel that I was sure some of what I had written & had to say sounded like a sob story when they were quizzing me about needing good pastoral care for DD, so I understood them quizzing & re quizzing me on different points - I would have done the same thing had I been a panel member - but our hearing sounds far worse than anyone else I have spoken
to about their appeal - though I've not spoken to anyone else who appealed for the same school this year, so who knows, he may have been that way with them all

I had everything ready for the appeal - the lawyer had looked over it all for me, but said she had no advice bar to concentrate on the medical need, which most of my evidence was geared too anyway & that I had it all covered - that was reassuring, though she also said that she couldn't guess how it would go on the day & she too was puzzled by them resubmitting the emails.

I noticed on going through the LAs evidence again, that I had missed that they had also submitted my covering letter for my medical needs waiting list place - this made no sense at all, as in it I listed all the reasons DD needs our chosen school, all the reasons why our allocated school is not suitable & all the reasons why we didn't choose our other local school, which our LA listed as slightly closer too us, though it isn't & the LGO agreed with that. Surely this would leave the panel wide open to questioning about our allocated school again, which was upheld in our complaint.

So I actually don't know anymore if it's really dirty tricks or just plain incompetence & they've literally just printed anything & everything off that they have with DDs name attached to the school & submitted it - it's weird, makes no sense at all

I do believe there's been ass covering over cock ups with our original application & my medical needs waiting list place conveniently missing & the CCP not replying in months was very suspicious, as it would surely blow a big hole in their own case.

Anyway, we now have further goings on & it's going to be very interesting to see what happens over the next few days or so.

I think I mentioned that I contacted our local Councillor for help chasing up the medical need application from the CCP before we had the appeal date, they said they would try, but then we got the hearing date so it was left at that. I also put a letter in to our GP as DD not getting on with a paediatric phycologist she was sent to for stress management after being in hospital & our original referral was for CAHMS which having spoken with DDs OT team, I realise is more specialised - so I updated our GP on our situation by way of stressing the need for an urgent CAHMs appointment & mentioned awaiting news from the CCP to the GP too - one of these seems to have made a difference :)

No idea which one worked, but this morning I got a phone call cancelling tomorrow's appeal hearing

citing a panel member taking ill as the reason, apologising & that they would reschedule in a few weeks - my gut instinct was something was amiss, as the new CoA sounded as nervous as hell, though they've been very polite, chatty & friendly & know me to be the same, every time I've spoken with them, my first thoughts were that they were not confident in what they had to say at all - though it may be my imagination, I felt they were lying

10 minutes later I get a short succinct email from the SA telling me that they had now been in contact with the CCP & that the CCP has approved DDs medical need application& she is now on the top of the schools waiting list

I've now submitted this email as additional evidence for our appeal as I figured I had nothing to lose, I could see nothing to say that I couldn't as it's not from the school & as they've postponed our hearing, a new appeal date means they surely can't refuse as rules are 7 days ahead of the hearing ???

I've also passed on this change of events & copy of this email to our councillor

No replies as yet, but I feel,like we are finally on the home run & it's going to be interesting to see how they handle this one

Hope that makes sense - I'm exhausted

Thanks again

Surely that means then that their original decision not to admit under medical criteria was a mistake, which deprived your dd of a place? In which case that mistake should be rectified and a place offered immediately without her being on a waiting list.

And I'm not sure it's acceptable to make you wait yet a further few weeks for another appeal.

Not necessarily. If the CCG originally advised the LA that she didn't need special treatment, then they can say they made their decision based on that advice.

If the position has changed because of new evidence, they can say they made the decision based on the evidence of that time.

However, if it was the original evidence used and they made the 'wrong' decision, you're right.

This is the thing though, this is where I think the ass covering & lying comes in lougle

I have never believed that they assessed our original application properly - first person I spoke with in the SA office after receiving our email offer of a school, sounded really puzzled when she pulled up our file, & agreed that it looked like something had gone wrong & to leave it to them & they would get back to me.

I then get an email from the head honcho telling me otherwise & insisting that both forms I submitted were correctly assessed together, including the medical evidence.

Yet the paperwork clearly said that postal applications will get a postal reply & online applications will get an email reply - our email reply started off with - thank you for your online application, which was an incorrect & incomplete form, as thanks to their website not working properly with our MAC, I couldn't fill it in properly - the form wouldn't accept the correct form of DDs name & kept changing it, allowed only one school choice, couldn't attach medical evidence, covering letter etc etc.

The email referred to DD by the abbreviated version of her name that the online form changed it to.

This formed part of our original complaint & why on the advice of a friend who had the same problem a couple of years earlier & it was sorted out by her MP, we asked our MP for help. This seemed to get backs up & make the situation worse, though by appeal stage I realised I was on a hiding to nowhere with this point & dropped it in favour of fighting the appeal mainly on the medical need grounds - I had already been told by SA that only Statemented DCS were accepted as medical need at application stage anyway, so seemed no point pursuing this point.

During our LGO complaint, this came up again & the LAs response was that I must have misheard, or misunderstood & that they hadn't told me this - but they definitely did - my hands cramp up at times & as a result I had the phone on loud speaker - DH was in the room with me & he heard it too

I noticed when reading the LAs response to the LGOs request for paperwork, that the LGO noted there was no email or written response from the CCP as regards the medical need assessment & that the LA had told the LGO the decision was "verbal communication"

When I submitted my medical needs waiting list request, I half expected them to refuse it, as I had read that they only accept this if there's a change in circumstances etc. I was prepared to argue this point, as due to other issues with DDs first primary school, I had since taken DD to see a specialist consultant in her condition in London, who was fantastic - this resulted in a long point by point letter listing all DDs problems & what she needed. This wasn't actually a new diagnosis, just a better letter, but I intended to argue this point if I had too - I didn't need to.

But DDs original letter of diagnosis was clear enough, mentioned that DD clearly suffered with "marked fatigue" & several other relevant symptoms & referred to a specialist charity organisation for further information & advice, whose information booklets I submitted first time round along with NHS print outs listing all the symptoms, OT report etc

So there was really no real change, just an additional letter, which also mentioned the school by name, plus an extra OT & GP letter supporting her need for our closest school & a point by point break down from me as to why she needs this school. The info was all the same, same diagnosis, same symptoms, same needs were clear in the paperwork submitted, but obviously in the circumstances of us losing our appeal, I had really gone to town on making it idiot proof.

We also know for fact thanks to friends in the right places, that the SA website went live without the proper checks & there was a lot of problems with it as a result & also that they have been in trouble for this before - but obviously that's not something we can use, but it does explain the ass covering that appears to be going on.

I really don't know what to expect now to be honest - if they were fair, then you would be right titchy but nothing they have done so far has been fair, so I won't hold my breath - but no way in hell am I just going to roll over with this

My imagination has obviously ran riot - so sick of this stress it's literally driving me nuts

Turns out all appeal hearing have been cancelled today for the same reason - DDs friend has just been chatting with her & told her they've had theirs cancelled too.

Can I ask - as we will now be given a date at least nearly 3 weeks away - Would you know if there is an reason why I can't used the email telling me that the CCP has approved DD for Medical Need & put her top of the schools waiting list??

I've emailed it to appeals already & asked, but have had no reply as of yet, which is unusual, so I Want to be prepared with a response if they say no - I've looked & I can't see any reason myself, but obviously I'm no expert - though I Think I might be after this farce

No reason at all. You can use it. If you can show that the LA is now giving priority on the same evidence on which your daughter was previously refused priority that shows the original decision was wrong.

Brilliant, thank you :)

I've since had a very vague response back from them, one that I later realised could be tricky, so I've asked for clarification in plain English.

Not that I'm getting paranoid or anything

So it goes on and on and I do really have every sympathy with you as they just seem to go from one set of problems to a different set. It has got to be good news about the medical evidence having now been accepted to give higher priority because I find it difficult to believe that they can wriggle out of accepting that the original decision was flawed. That has got to be positive but then you never know with any appeal.

Thanks Admissions I really appreciate your opinion on this too, I really can't for the life of me see how they can wriggle out if it, not just that the first appeal hearing verdict was flawed, but that the original assessment was flawed too. According to SA the CCP originally turned DD down as a MN for this school.

Yet no written evidence of that existed when the LGO asked for it & though I submitted one extra consultants letter listing DDs sub diagnoses for the CCP this time round & knew I could argue that point as new evidence if needed, nothing had really changed at all since the original application - ALL of these conditions were clearly listed as symptoms of the condition in the information booklets, including the NHS print out & "DD clearly suffers with quite marked CFS" & vulnerability to injury, was mentioned in the original consultants letter, which is a large part of why she needs this school.

A doctor would have seen & understood ALL of that with my original application, so yet another reason why I believe this was one big mess up from day one & they have ass covered & lied & lied.

I now have the hearing date, which is the date they thought, 3 weeks after the cancelled date - so 3 weeks more of limbo for DD, who is too embarrassed to see/keep in touch much with her school friends as she can't give an answer when they ask her when she will be joining them in school :( It was her birthday this week & the only friend she wanted to spend it with, was her very old friend who now lives in another area, so unlike her as she is usually such a social butterfly & always wants a party

I have been in touch with our councillor again & they have replied & are looking into the situation, I complained about the waste if LA money for another hearing, along side the effect this situation is having on us all, when it's clear there has been an error from day one - fingers crossed they can help.

Just a quick update

& A HUGE THANK YOU, TO ALL WHO HAVE ADVISED & SUPPORTED ME THROUGH THIS

I absolutely couldn't have done it without you - MN at its best :)

Since my to the point & holding no punches, email about the waste of tax payers money etc, was read by our Councillor this morning - the SA have just emailed to say that "a place has become available" for DD at this school :) :) :) :) :)

I have to ring to accept the offer, which is obviously too late now & I hopefully will have news of a start date then, I'm expecting it will be after the school holidays, but just having that to look forward to is enough :)

DD & I both broke down in tears when we got the news, the relief is immense - I can now get on with my life again!!!!

Fantastic news!

Excellent news! I'm glad its all over.

YES!!!! - so pleased for you. How you have coped with this pressure for so long is amazing. You should be proud of yourself and your daughter will be proud of you too.

That's fantastic news!

Very very happy for you, RockinHippy.

I have been following all this as a lurker, and am so pleased it has finally been resolved.

You shouldn't have been put through it, your DD shouldn't have been put through it, but now - huge congratulations, and all the best to your dd for HER NEW SCHOOL!!!!

well isn't that interesting. Of course it's purely co-incidental that when the pressure was applied and you would not give in that a place just appeared!
Well done, have a nice evening without this worry and get on the phone at 9 tomorrow

Congratulations!

Fantastic news, well done on your persistence.

Well done!

Congratulations RockinHippy from another lurker who has been amazed at your perseverance and hard work. I hope your daughter settles in quickly.

Ditto what Idespair said.

Huge congratulations x

Hi! As you know I've been through a horrendous appeal situation too with the efa involved but have been thinking about you.
Just looked for an update and read this, am so pleased for you and your dd:)

My ds is very happy and settled at his second choice school and has surprised everybody with his travelling alone on 4 buses a day with absolutely no problems. I totally underestimated his capabilities!

It wasn't meant to be for us, I can see that now but it clearly was in your situation.
Well done for fighting so hard, enjoy uniform shopping and give yourself a huge pat on the back.

( formerly known as appealtakingovermylife ) xx