big difference between primary school levels and secondary?

[slothage]

My DD started yr 7 secondary last week and is settling in just fine and really enjoying it. However today she came home and was upset having been placed In a maths set of 4 out of 5 (one up from bottom set). This is following a test she took last Friday. I reassured her that it was fair and that she had been placed in a set that the teachers thought she should be in and that the teachers know best.

I am privately a little bewildered though as in primary there were no signs that she was underperforming, in fact her primary teacher always said maths was her strong point rather than English (although I couldn't see it myself, I always thought she struggled with maths more than English but I believed the teacher when she told me DD had nothing to worry about).

How can the primary teacher get it so wrong? I wish I'd known as I'd have got her some extra tuition. Parents evening was always how great she was doing etc! This is all new as DS who is in yr 9 has been top set all the way through. I knew DD wasn't as confident and quick at maths as he is but didn't think she'd be in set 4, yet they had the same primary teacher in yr 6 who was glowing about the pair of them. The outcome at yr 7 is totally different though!

Setting is based on peer groups really. So maybe dd was fine in primary but the other feeder schools have fed in pupils who are better at maths??

I was in top sets all through primary and secondary but got a real shock when I went to college where I was suddenly way down the ability list.

I was just going to post exactly what Bob said. A child's setting is entirely dependant on the year's cohort, harsh but true.

Ok thanks, it is an excellent secondary and I have full confidence that she has been placed where she should be, if anything I'm wondering about the standard in the primary she has come from. Shame as if the primary teacher had said she was struggling I'd have got her some extra tuition.

What did she get in her SATs?

I've put this whole issue to the back of my mind, for the time being. Mainly because I don't want Ds to worry about it. Privately, like the op, dissapointed is putting it mildly!

Ds got 5c for English and 4a Maths in his SATS. Nothing out of the ordinary, I know, but we were really pleased, it was as predicted at start Y6.

He's in group/set 4 out of 5 for English and 3 for maths. Im amazed there could be three full sets of high level 5s and above for English. I guess I could suck up set 3 for maths but hes always enjoyed and done well at English.

Im not going to do anything, speak about it to teachers bla bla. Just going to bide my time and see what happens. I am totally gutted though. A couple of the boys in his English set got low L4 - they're sons of my friends and we discussed their sats results.

Im ready for someone to tell me off! :(

I have no idea what she got in her sats, we weren't told (we are in Wales is that why?).

slothage:

agree with the sets are created in relation to the pupils they've got - so some years can be better than others (stiffer competition for your DC).

My advice is use this shock/ anger at being in set 4 of 5 to good effect.

If she's unhappy to be in this position - encourage her to work hard/ maybe play on-line maths games/ go along to maths support group (which most schools run & is free) - and get better at math. The only way to move up groups is to improve - and that takes work, practice and dedication.

HTH

Wales don't do SATs which means it's hard to pin objectively where your DD is at with maths.

I think if you are concerned phone the school to ask about the set. Is it a strong cohort? What would a student from this set typically get at GCSE? (Obv hard to predict but school should be able to give a rough idea eg A-B or below C).

If the answer isn't reassuring, ask what DD needs to do to move up. Ask to see the test so you know what she did wrong. If it's basics like numeracy, go over them at home, hire that tutor etc. It's early days yet.

If you don't sit SATs in Wales, and therefore don't know her levels, then you have no idea how well she was doing.

When her teacher says 'she is doing well', she means 'she is doing well for her' not 'she is doing well compared to her peers'.

So she could have been on the bottom table in primary, and the teacher still tell you 'she is doing well'.

This is why SATs are good. They are the only way parents can find out how there DC are actually doing.

I would think they have placed her in the set based on how well she did in the school's test. They do review them regularly. Check how she feels about her maths work over the next few weeks, if some of it is stretching her - fine, if not and she's rarely making mistakes (look at her workbook and homework) then you could speak to the tutor at parents evening (I think most have them around Nov) or send an email to the tutor concerned and they can keep on eye on how well she is doing compared to others and if possibly she could be moved up.

it depends on the cohort
my son got a high level 5 in sats-he is still not in top group in secondary because other kids got level 6[shrugs]

they all make progress

Our secondary had level 6s in the top set or those who had already studied at level 6 in year 6 and achieved 5As in their SATS. The rest of the level 5s filled the next 2 sets with level 4s were in the bottom two sets. They do quickly move up or down over the next few months.

I am confused, we are in wales and my son did tests i may i year six and we got levels for just before summer hols. But, he is now i year 8 so perhaps it has changed. I also know from teacher friends that secondRy schools have teaches responsible for pupil transition from primary and they tend to have meetings with primary teachers where stengths and weakness of individual students will be shared. It is also true that pupils move around sets for a while before things settle, it is in the best interests of the school as well as the kids to have pupils in the best class.