Wanting to study medicine

[maiacam]

Hi

Please can anyone give any advise please. I didn't go to university so haven't a clue! My son is interested in studying medicine. He is in Year 10 from September and has just chosen his options Maths (waiting result as sat in June), 2 English, Geog, 3 Science, French, Rs and Statistics.

He has also recently joined the St John Ambulance.

Is there anything else he could, should be doing to maximise his chances?

Any advise welcome.

Thank you xx

All three of my DC got accepted by more than one university and I think others over complicate the application. Universities want excellent scientists but also real people who can connect with others on all levels. So work experience is important as is all out of school activities. If your DZc want to be a doctor they will be interested in other people! just let this shine through.

I am a doctor, so my own experience of getting into medical school is now (eek, just worked out, how did that happen) 17 years out of date, but I am from a very working class family and went to a state school, as did almost all of my class.

In terms of thinking about getting into medicine now, it is competitive and good grades are just one part of it all. Others have mentioned work experience or caring roles as a good plan in terms of being people-people!

Thinking a bit ahead to interviews, we ask things about recent medical or science news stories, what candidates think about current NHS reforms, so he should start reading new stories like that in broadsheets (of different persuasions) or good online sites to have a strong basis.

It will help him decide if he really wants to be a doctor or if one of the biomedical sciences might be better for him.

I agree with twentyten on the nature of voluntary work. The med schools are trying to find the right sort from a pool of academic high achievers these days. Take a look at

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?s=medicine

to see the profiles UCAS profiles of successful applicants. The lowest average UCAS tariff of people who made it is 487, and almost all med schools have an average score over 500 - that's AAAA, and you can be sure at least 3 of those 4 A levels will be scientifically focused. If you do just the 3 A levels your maximum score on 3A is 420 and that makes you a well below average candidate even at the least demanding school. The top 7 have kids averaging over 550 - e.g. UCL is 587, Cambridge 651. Whether all these really high A level scores make better doctors is another story.

Plan B can be a delayed plan A - apply for physiology or something like that and then do a fast-track med course later. We know someone who pulled that off and is just starting a house job. Persistence can pay!

DinoSnores is spot on. When I was on a medical school interview panel we were really just looking for a good comunicator who could gave a stab at answering some ethical and topical questions in a sensible way without getting flustered.

For now the important things are getting the grades, choosing the right A level subjects, getting in some work/caring experience and making sure medicine is for him. There are some courses held by medical schools that give great insight in to the applications process and what bring a doctor is like. I still remember one presenter saying that medicine isn't a job, it's a way of life. He was right.

Some universities have their scoring criteria for UCAS forms available online and are very useful to take a look at.

Grades are very very important. The Student Room has useful guides where they list the grades and subjects expected by the individual medical schools but on average you need lots of A* / A at GCSE and three As at A2 (chemistry and other sciences).

Then there is the BMAT or UKCAT (depending on which med school) which they use to discriminate between all the applicants with top grades.

Work experience is also important and agree with others who say that some sort of sustained voluntary work would be useful.

The Student Room is great as it has lots and lots of information as well as forums with other students going through the same thing.

Just wonder if anyone can suggest some useful and interesting medical sorts of magazines or journals that are suitable for young teenagers. My 11 yr old dd is always fascinated by biology or how our bodies work etc.

Although whether she will even go to uni or what she will end up is hard to know at the moment.

Horrible science? Lots of BBC radio shows on medicine issues?

baba this is a good site and I'd like to visit the museum too:
www.centreofthecell.org/

online doctor games
www.mydoctorgames.com/

Thanks tewn. Endo

my DD1 is at med school..about to start her final year.

She comes from a bog standard comp, and so do many of her cohort :)

Stellar A levels are a must.. it's averaging at A*AA at the mo. Chemistry is often stated, also maths, biology useful but often not essential..but those who don't have it find some aspects much harder in 1st year. DD1 did Maths, Chem, Bio and Psychology.

Work experience vital, and being in St Johns Ambulance is really good, as he will have done a few years by 6th form and that shows commitment. If he can, once 16 he should volunteer at a local old folk's home, or similar, and show he can deal with the boring real life day to day caring; it's far more useful to show this than to shadow a surgeon for a week. Also it will show him whether he really really wants it... it's not for everyone because it is an entire lifestyle, not just a degree! Having said that it's not all work.. DD1 has had a lot of fun too:)

Good luck to him, he is wise thinking about it now:)

Is A level maths a must?

Exam results will be vital. Unless he has at least 6 A at GCSE (and ideally more, with any remainders being As) and predictions of A/A at A level, the application will just be binned.
Of course all the work experience etc will be vital in differentiating those who are just very clever, from those who are very clever and genuinely committed to the subject.
If, after GCSE the results are not good enough, then you have to be realistic and not bother applying. The fact they have done 5 years in a care home etc etc will not be enough.

There are courses for children whose families have not been to university. Most Unis are trying to widen access.....they have people dedicated to helping youngsters understand what is required early enough, to be able to do something g about achieving it. Have a look at Uni websites or phone their admissions departments and ask if there is someone who can give advice, if the school is not really up to it.
Also write to the school and ask for specific careers advice or the contact details of someone outside school who can give it.

It is true, that knowing how these systems works helps. If you do t have that info yourself, then it is possible to track it down, if you and your so. Are determined. And tbh, it is better if he is the one who is determined and shows the initiative about it all.

Not necessarily.

Cambridge says:

Applicants must have AS or A Level passes in Chemistry and two of Biology/Human Biology, Physics, Mathematics. At least one pass must be at A Level.
Most applicants for Medicine at Cambridge have at least three science/mathematics A Levels and some Colleges require this and/or ask for particular A Level subject(s). See individual College websites for details.

www.study.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/medicine/

Not saying that you need to aim for Cambridge, but I am assuming they have the strictest criteria (current offers are around AAA) so aim for that and you'll satisfy everywhere else!

Newcastle say:

AAA including Chemistry and/or Biology at A or AS level and excluding General Studies and Critical Thinking. If only one of Biology and/or Chemistry is offered at A or AS level, the other should be offered at GCSE grade A (or Dual Award Science grade A).

www.ncl.ac.uk/undergraduate/degrees/a100/entryrequirements/

There's a good section on the BMA website that focuses on admission to medical school:

bma.org.uk/developing-your-career/medical-student/entry-to-medical-school/entry-requirements

Something that Medusa said reminded me of DD's experience in writing about work experience etc in her Personal Statement. It just goes to show that you can't win!

DD decided fairly early on what she wanted to do and did a Summer School in the subject at the end of Y9. We thought that it would be a good idea to mention it as evidence of long-held interest in her subject. The Head of Sixth said it was OK to mention, but only quickly and in passing. His reasoning was that it was a bit pathetic if the PS was full of three year old information; it's almost on a level with boasting about being made milk-monitor in Y7!

So work experience from Y9 or Y10 is worth mentioning but the real clincher is the more recent, more 'grown up' evidence.

It doesn't HAVE to be all A at GCSE... but I agree at least 6 is important. Different university place varying amounts of weight to the GCSE grades. Cardiff for example, wants (or did when DD1 applied) 9 a/a minimum. And didn;t acknowledge Btecs.. which ruled DD1 out as she did a Btec Art!

However others didn't put so much store by GCSE, and place more emphasis on the UKCAT (all applicants have to do this for any med application) and on interview.

DD1 is at Peninsula (Exeter) which is decently high up the charts (if that matters!) and they have a problem based learning approach, which is fab for those who can study themselves and don't want a lecture based style. They have a a very good rep for turning out F1s (newly qualified doctors) who can actually do the job as they are thrown in with real patients from their first month at Uni!

DD1 chose Peninsula because she wanted to be by the sea and spent years 1+2 in Exeter, and 3+4 in Truro where she learned to surf:) Yr 5 will be in Plymouth and then... bloody hell this time next year my baby will be a real doctor.. doing her F1 somewhere!

I Do think however a long standing relative experience is good.. it shows committment. Medical school is TOUGH and staying power counts!

Maths A level is tough... Chemistry doubly so. But there is no doubt that med students really are the most able kids. I currently have two at University, both had stellar A levels, but when I'm around DD1's bunch of medics , they are a truly awesome bunch.. watching them go from 18 yr olds to (currently) 22/23 and how capable they are... is just WOW.

Good A levels, science biology related

Or you can do an access course, get a degree in biomedical science which isn't as competative and then convert to a medical degree

It's the long way round but good for someone who didn't do well at A Level.

Oh dear, another thread about medicine applicants with misleading information in amongst the good information

OP. Your son is doing everything right at the moment. I wouldn't worry anymore for a year or so. Then do you own research by looking at the information given out by the Medical Schools themselves, you should look at their admissions policies in particular.

The admission requirements for Medicine change year by year and information gets out of date VERY quickly.

Incidentally, I know three kids from my DDs school who got into medicine last year who only had three A levels (I think they did extended projects though). You would have thought that impossible if you believed everything on this thread.

One of my DCs is doing medicine (4th year) and he absolutely loves it. Its hard work but he is as enthusiastic now as he ever was. He could have choosen a less gruelling career with more pay but he's never doubted his decision.

Just popping my head up to say I am a current medical student and happy to give any advice info I can. I agree it changes rapidly.

It's late right now but feel free to pm me.

Good grades, good personality. Probably the two biggest musts. Without a personality he will not pass any interviews. That is often hardest for the straight from school students. So I would encourage anything that gives him confidence in situations, so drama, or speaking to strangers often.

Work experience is fine but can be in any form, some of my experience came from courses I went on etc. there are also weekend events for people thinking of medicine, I think it's called medlink, but might be wrong.

As I said feel free to pm me and I'll give you some info and some more specifics about particular unis if it helps without outing myself here .

I applied and got into med school outside of the US. I didn't get into a UK school because of my grades (3 B's when my offer was ABB). What got me that offer instead of AAB or 3 A's was my experiences as a lifeguard. They asked me a few questions about it and I was able to turn their question into an opportunity where I could demonstrate maturity, an ability to communicate and deal with the public.

I wouldn't both with musical instruments etc. It will just detract from his studies. He needs straight A's and I would suck it up and pay for tutoring if he thinks he will need it.

Want2Be. When were you applying? Were you applying as a foriegn fee payer or with home fee status?

I know this sounds smug but I think people over complicate this. Firstly unless your child will get A/A in all GCSE exams don't encourage them to apply they also need to be getting A/A in all A Levels and Chemistry is essential, Maths is probably next.

They need to be involved in their communities by choice, the aptitude tests will reveal whether they have the sociability factor needed to be an effective doctor. They also need to be interested in issues/ ethics. It is a vocation not a sensible choice. The work load is huge and unless you are super bright and dedicated it will not work.

Good luck to all, I wouldn't be able to do it myself.

agggghast, while I can't disagree with this bit of what you say, "It is a vocation not a sensible choice." , I'd say that you don't need to be "super bright" to be a medical student or a doctor. You need to be able to think quickly and remember lots, but the most intelligent people don't necessarily make the best doctors!

Good post Agggghast

I sometimes get the impression people are looking to find the 'secret ingredient' for being a succsessful medicine applicant where, in actual fact, it's quite straight forward. It's not easy but it's not complicated. The admission requirements and procedure are actually quite transparent for a lot of the Universities.

If Uni's only wanted 'super' bright they would ask for higher entrance grades than they currently do. They have enough applicants to be able to choose but clearly realise that they get a better selection of applicants by not limiting themselves to students with a string of A*'s.

Universities are also actively trying to recruit students from all types of backgrounds and don't want to limit themselves to the 'perfect on paper' candidates ie the private school candidates Quite right too.

Whilst it is true that universities could specify all As at GCSE and A level, but dont, it is important that hopeful candidates realise that many candidates WILL have all As and that unless they have a large amount of A*s at GCSE and are going to get As as a minimum at A Level, they dont really have a chance.
Yes, universities want to widen access, but I think it can be misleading to people to suggest that less than a stellar academic record will be acceptable.
Every year thousands apply who simply dont have enough As at GCSE, dont have high enough AS results, dont have high enough predictions, or even the right subject combinations. They have no hope of an offer. They apply because they have not been given clear enough advice about what is required.....their applications are binned. So yes, not everyone has ALL A grades, but it is important to realise how vital it is and that the uni cannot take you with a few passes at GCSE because you are from a sink council estate and failing comp.

Where the private school and good state school candidates benefit, apart from having the better grades,mis that they get the right advice from early on, so they choose the right GCSEs and A levels and are given advice about whether their academic profile gives them a realistic chance or not.

The OP is on the ball, and even if she doesnt know this stuff already, she can track it down if she is determined. And then as time passes, she will know if the academic profile of her son is suitable. She may also be able to get in contact with people at the unis who are keen to broaden access to people like him and who can advise and help him do what is necessary to get there.