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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Year 7,8, do they need to use sewing machines?

63 replies

babasheep · 02/08/2014 21:54

Just that really. My dd s going to yr 7 I don't really know what are required and what are handy to have?! Got a 22yr old sewing machine hope it still works and just wonder I should have serviced for dd.

OP posts:
Orangeanddemons · 03/08/2014 12:14

Yeah posh creative subjectsGrin.

I teach in an Ofsted outstanding highly academic school. All subject areas are highly valued, including drama and Art. Ofsted rated us on our outstanding rounded education for all students.

Just think Rabbit, the clothes you're wearing, the sofa you sit on, the bag you carry, the tent you go camping on, the baby bedding you used, were all designed by some lowly vocational type. How can you bear to use or wear these things? It must be so low brow for you

RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria · 03/08/2014 12:19

Now you're just being ridiculous. Also rude.

plumnc · 03/08/2014 12:27

Well Rabbit, In my book, school is there to provide a rounded education. That indeed means a mix of academics, arts, physical and practical subjects. My dc's are in a top academic school in this country (with a sizable group of leavers heading for Oxbridge etc). I believe this school is so good particularly because of this mix. I am sure most academics will agree that being able to apply theory to practice is an important life skill.

Educating well rounded individuals serve the country well, yes, and so it should; we need to keep the wheels turning at all levels. However one would assume that a rounded education would serve most individuals well too (How well each school teaches each subject is a different discussion. Personally I have only had good experiences with regards to arts from both state and indie).

Sorry for digressing op - I think you can safely assume that any sewing will be done at school. However, if you have an old machine, it may just come in handy for practising threading the machine, mine did (dc going into yr9).

BoneyBackJefferson · 03/08/2014 12:30

Rabbit

I find it amusing that you put music as having the "educational equivalent" of physics, maths and history.

You essentially say that others are biased toward textiles , the same can be said about you and music, drama and arts etc.

titchy · 03/08/2014 12:39

But how can kids make informed decisions about which options to take if they haven't had some experience of the subject?

Many a child has opted for food tech gcse only to find that actual cooking is only a small part of the subject. If they'd done a bit in year 7 or 8 they'd realise that and be prepared.

And I think you'll find that in schools where textiles are offered they have far fewer timetabled hours than music and drama do, so hardly being prioritised.

It is entirely possible for schools to do both within the constraints of the timetable.

RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria · 03/08/2014 12:58

Boney - you're probably right to a certain extent Grin none of us is without bias (although I don't think my bias is as blatant and ill based as the 'I teach it so it must be worthwhile' bias we've seen in this thread). However. Music is an academic discipline, musicology is a recognised academic research subject. A person who knows nothing about music cannot by any stretch of the imagination be described as either well educated or well rounded. A person who knows nothing about Kevlar? Can.

And arts ed has been decimated in recent years at the same time as subjects such as textiles have been presented as 'the thing to do' (but only for state school kids, of course....) If nobody challenges this reductionist utilitarian view then the arts will continue to decline and workplace focussed education will become the only game in town for those of us who don't send our kids to private schools. And I think that's wrong. Most people's views obviously differ, that's fine, I'm not going to start flinging around insults like 'talking out of your arse' or anything like that. I will continue to disagree with them, though.

RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria · 03/08/2014 13:00

They don't do textiles at my DDs school but they do other tech subjects and they get far more timetable time than drama in KS3.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 03/08/2014 13:05

Can I clarify Rabbit please - were you saying STEM is code for preparing for jobs?

Original poster
babasheep · 03/08/2014 13:09

Rabbit, I only asked a simple question. No need to be worked up about the whole subject. Until they are given a chance or choice how would they know whether they like music, drama, sport, art or textile.

Even highly regarded unis do different studies in laws, medicine, engineering, business .....They are vocational studies.

Textile is something that associated our everyday life apart from those who manage to be naturists 24/7. There are a lot of science, history, maths, creativities into textile just like many other practical subjects. If any subject that motivates children to expand their learning and knowledge then it is a worth while subject.

I don't know if textile will be one my dd's favourites however I am glad that she is given that opportunity explore.

OP posts:
marcopront · 03/08/2014 13:14

Rabbit you said

"Obviously it was vocational. The fact that you did the degree and now teach the subject is a bit of a give away."

I did a Maths degree and now teach Maths by your logic Maths is a vocational subject as well. But textiles is not the educational equivalent of Maths. Can you clarify this for me?

alemci · 03/08/2014 13:19

I think textiles is really important and undervalued. useful for repairs etc. used to love supporting in secondary.

Rabbit your dcs may enjoy it. how do you repair clothing?

titchy · 03/08/2014 13:21

Art and design is also an academic subject area. Just saying.....

Original poster
babasheep · 03/08/2014 13:30

It is different for those don't have to work for a living. IMO for most people almost any thing we learn and study outside or inside school has an element of vocational value.

Do people do sport and drama naked? That will reduce the costs of drama productions. Perhaps do without the curtains and seats too?

OP posts:
BigBoobiedBertha · 03/08/2014 14:30

Wow, posted about sewing machines very early on but this thread has taken a bit of turn hasn't it?!

As a quilter and having seen what DS (who is dyspraxic btw) has done in the last 3 yrs the textiles course is definitely part of arts education that apparently has been decimated. That is as long as you don't take a very blinkered view of what art actually is, of course. There is a large design part to what he has done and, as a pp said there is the scientific element. I think rather than calling it a vocational subject, it is actually an applied subject - you apply the knowledge from the purely academic parts of the curriculum. It has as much value as doing drama or art for a lot of children. DS actually quite enjoyed it although he would be the first to admit he was a bit crap at it, bless him. That isn't the point though. It is about seeing the interconnectedness of the subjects imo. That science is not just a subject in a little box along with all the other little boxes for art and music and maths (lots of measuring and calculating in DT) - in the real world there are no boxes - knowledge overlaps.

It is also nothing like the textiles that I did as a child which was effectively dress making and only for girls. I probably wouldn't have stopped sewing for 20 years if I had done the same course as DS and I might actually have viewed myself as at least a little bit creative rather than 'rubbish at art' which is what I was like after school. It certainly makes you more rounded, knowing that you aren't just good at the academic or whatever.

Orangeanddemons · 03/08/2014 15:20

Yes, I am being rude, as indeed you are. What's your degree and occupation then?

BoneyBackJefferson · 03/08/2014 15:24

Rabbit

In the same way that musicology isn't exactly taught in schools, RM isn't just hitting things with hammers, food tech isn't just cooking, textiles isn't just making clothes and to make titchy happy Art and design isn't just painting stuff.

Someone mentioned knowing the background to the subjects being taught music like many other undervalued subjects isn't just hitting a drum.

As for the worth of each subject (or whether anyone has a well rounded education) is surely subjected to the individual.

Orangeanddemons · 03/08/2014 15:28

But why is music more important? Or would that just be classical music?

I don't expect anyone to be able to discuss Kevlar, it's very boring. However, I would like to think that my students can understand the ethics of 3rd world labour, or at a more basic level sew on a button, repair a damaged item. Why is music more important than that?

lljkk · 03/08/2014 15:28

Don't need a home sewing machine unless they want to do GCSE textiles. The lessons amount to like once a fortnight one term only each yr before yr 10. Hardly onerous or detracting from other subjects, & a jolly good skill to have.

My mother tried but failed to teach me and my schools didn't offer sewing, so I didn't learn how to use a machine until I was 43.

I disagree about the value of music & drama as core subjects, god knows both were useless for me personally. Everyone has something they'd just as soon never have tried.

bigTillyMint · 03/08/2014 15:29

OP, the DC didnt use a sewing machine at home at all in Y7/8 - the textiles they did was about sewing for a purpose and homework was all paperwork.

DD chose Art - textiles for GCSE in Y9, which is an art course but they do the art through textiles as opposed to drawing/painting/photography IYSWIM! She has used my ancient machine a bit, but it is pretty rubbish for free embroidery despite servicing and this has caused a bit of angst at timesWink

GalaxyInMyPants · 03/08/2014 15:32

Dd's school have just stopped textiles. Sacked all the textile dept. she enjoyed it. But never needed a machine at home.

ReallyTired · 03/08/2014 22:09

Brain surgeons use textiles in their day to day work.

5% of what you learn at school is useful. The problem is that its impossible to predict which 5% you use. I am glad that my son had the opportunity to learn sewing. However I suspect that his teacher is jumping for joy that he is now onto woodwork.

I would be quite happy for my son to jack in school music and do more sewing. Unfortunately my son hated sewing with a passion.

A well rounded education includes practical as well as academic subjects.

Original poster
babasheep · 03/08/2014 23:15

As someone said textile is an applied subject which I can agree. I wish we can have more subjects like woodwork, 2D, 3D, food tech, even mechanic sorts of practical subjects. So kids can have more opportunities to apply a mixture of knowledge learned from their core subjects. In general children learn better with hands on activities. I don’t disrespect sport, drama, art or music of course these subjects will add important value to children development. I myself have been spending a fortune in moneys and times on fees, petrol rushing and waiting around outside of music, drama, dance, gym, swimming classes after school weekly. Once in a while I remind my dcs that we are very fortunate that they can have the extra development.

OP posts:
Merrylegs · 03/08/2014 23:21

Yes, DD needed a sewing machine at home in year 8. In fact, art homework became known as 'who has the best sewing machine' or 'who lives closest to grandma' (hollow laugh).

ElephantsNeverForgive · 04/08/2014 00:39

Textiles is only a waste of time, as is DT because school doesnt set it into DCs like DD1 who are interested and want to learn and the DD2's of this world who just muck about.

ElephantsNeverForgive · 04/08/2014 00:40

Textiles is only a waste of time, as is DT because school doesnt set it into DCs like DD1 who are interested and want to learn and the DD2's of this world who just muck about.