School dilemma

[Jumpingjuly]

We are returning from overseas next month and have been looking for schools for my daughter. When I looked at my state schools of choice they were all full so we have gone down the private route and lined up a place However a state school that has some of my DD's friends in has just confirmed they have a place for her. Do I swap her to a school with her friends or do I stick with the more academic private school. I haven't told my DD about the school place as I am fairly certain she will choose the school with her friends in (although admittedly slightly distant friends as we have been out of the country for 5 years) but I just wonder if by swapping to the state school I might be depriving her of achieving her full potential .
As an aside DD is not a high achiever and would probably languish at the bottom of the private sets and middle of the state sets so I don't know if that makes a difference.
Also as a second aside we are returning as DH has lost his job and although we are comfortably well off now and are fairly confident he will get another comparable job soon there is that uncertainty over finances.

My gut reaction is go with the state option if your finances are not certain. Private school fees tend to go up ahead of inflation and there are extras to consider as well. It would take some of the job hunting pressure off your DH as well.

Being in a school with friends may help your DD settle back into the country.

How old is your dd and what curriculum has she been following overseas? Our dcs had spent 4 years in American and IB curriculum primary schools before we moved back to the UK and we found they were ahead of their peers here in some areas but behind in others. One of the reasons we chose private over state was the smaller class sizes, allowing more individual attention, which we feel has really benefitted them.

Sorry for late reply(time difference here) . She will be going into year 8 and has been following the British circ. however due to all her school moves this will be her 5th when she was assessed by the private school she was found to be massively behind in Maths (although her school report states she is a 5A) and she is dyslexic and very young for her year being an August baby so they wanted to drop her into year 7 .
So the choice is private year 7 , state year 8 . I personally don't feel she is massively behind although she definatley has gaps in her education and we walked into the entrance exam with no prep whereas most children sitting the exam would have been more prepared. However I can obviously see the advantage of going into year 7 from a confidence level.
To be honest cash is not a huge problem . We have the money now to complete her education ring fenced already.
I think my big fear is we go private she hates it begs me to get her into the state school and that ship will have sailed as I will have turned it down (without her knowing!).
I suppose what I am really asking is who should be making the choice? Me (in which case there is the higher propensity to do well In The private school) or her (who I am almost certain will choose the state school because of her friends)

Private without a doubt for all the reasons you give. At sec thry form new friendships anyway so no guarantee re these friends.

The independent school, from everything you have said.

It's what I'd choose anyway, if that is me in a few years (and it could be! We are going the other way and moving abroad now and I am 100% certain my daughter will be diagnosed as dyslexic when she is old enough to be tested!)

Does the private have a good SEN department? Much about your position indicates the private route BUT SEN support in some private schools is very poor relative to the state sector - yes, you might have smaller classes but e.g. not a very expert SENCo, have to pay extra for any 1:1 or small group time, in the worst cases a general feeling of 'I think you would do better elsewhere, so we won' particularly try to keep you'.

I would hasten to say that this is absolutely not universal - some private schools have exemplary SEN prvision, especially for e.g. dyslexia (less tolerant of behavioural difficulties). But might be worth investigating before you make your decision.

I would say State - sorry to disagree.
State will put her into the "correct" year group, and will be well used to adapting to different abilities. They should also have a SEN team who are well able to cope with dyslexia (often something you pay extra for at private schools).
Having some familiar faces, and not being in the "wrong" year group will help a lot with settling in and self-esteem.

I would also think it could be far more useful to use any money for targeted tutoring if necessary.

I don't know about the advantages/disadvantages of changing year but just wanted to say this should definitely be your decision and yours alone!

I personally don't think friends should be a factor as there is no guarantee they will stay friends, and it's great to have good, long-term friends out if school.

FWIW When we made our secondary school choice, we had said dd could have a say but it became clear that she just wanted to follow her friends and also was stressed out by the decision. So we told her that we valued her opinion but had to overrule her and she was fine with that, seemed relieved even though we chose the school where she won't know anyone!

The SEN stuff sounds vital, good support there will make all the difference I would have thought

Agree state. She will be with her peers who can help with orientation, even if friendship dynamics change, and if she is not up to speed and has SEN an academic private may not be the right place for her even dropping a year. Do you have any Ed Psych reports which recommend either route ? Financially private is a big commitment too and you may want to reserve that as a 6th form option

Being at the bottom of the bottom sets, as you say she would be at the private, is not a good place to be. It is likely to knock her confidence badly.

Also echo concerns that private, especially academically selective, schools often don't cope well with anything more than very mild dyslexia. And the one to one sessions will add £££ to the fees.

I would go for the comp where she is likely to feel more confident and get more structured help with SEN.

A happy confident child will achieve more than a disheartened child languishing at the bottom of the pile.

Thanks for the replies interesting the majority are saying state which surprises me as I thought opinion would be definatley for private . Guess DD might get her wish after all

I would look carefully at the SEN provision. Both my DS are dyslexic and have had good support at Prep school level but I have looked very carefully at the Senior schools. I am wary of the very selective schools because although DS1 has a high enough IQ his slower processing speed might well mean he is always struggling with the pace of the lessons which would be bad for his confidence.

I would say private. She will go into Yr 7, i.e. with everybody starting secondary school so socially it will be very good for her - a chance to form friendship groups from the very beginning. I would argue that going into Yr 8 as a very young August child would be a lot more difficult - friendship groups would have formed, dynamics established, etc. It would take her a while to even figure out what's what socially/friendship wise speaking. Also, friends from 5 yrs ago aren't necessarily going to be friends now and, in a sense, her thinking that they will be and then potentially realizing that their paths diverged could be even more challenging than just forming new friendships in a fresh peer group in Yr 7.

I personally think putting an August born child not zooming ahead academically into Yr 7 is a great idea. She will have time to mature by the time of her GCSEs etc and without the pressure. She will not stick out from her peer group physically and emotionally since there won't be much age difference really between her and Autumn/Winter born children etc

Re academics, if it's not a particularly selective school, she will not necessarily languish at the bottom of the bottom sets. And at least in a lot of private schools, bottom sets do get a lot of support instead of being written off as "low achievers" and consigned to BTecs instead of proper GCSEs in some state (generalization, I know, but still...).

If it's a really selective school and she walked in without prep, then she is not such a low achiever after all.

Dyslexia is quite a common condition and support depends on particular school rather than private vs state sector as whole. And at secondary level, it's all about support for exams/extra time, support for using laptops,organization skills etc - private schools often do this very well. Presumably, private schools knows about her dyslexia and still offered her the place so it doesn't scare them.

ime, success at school is about having a good social life. So my bias would be totally for where i thought was best bet for her socially.

I would look very carefully at the SEN provision at both schools.

And I would also be very, very wary about her dropping a year. I know many people don't have a problem with this, and you say she's young for her years. But that could easily change- and it's hard to be "different" from your peers in this way. And if she's not an academic high flyer, being the oldest in the class and in the bottom set might not be a very comfortable place to be. Children notice stuff like that. Particularly academically competitive children.

Don't assume that private schools will not have good SEN provision.

Some are absolutely terrible, and some are amazingly good. I have experience of both, and also of some state schools which have very poor SEN provision. (I'm sure they are not necessarily representative of the whole sector, before someone jumps on me.)

So find out out, for these two particular schools, which will be better for your daughter. This is not a "state vs private" issue; my advice would be exactly the same if both were state or both private.

Absolutely don't assume, either way. That's why I said look carefully. But very academic private schools do sometimes have a habit of parting company with children who aren't going to keep their grades up-so it's important to be aware.

Have you actually applied for the state place and been given a written offer?

Until this happens, what the school says about their being a vacancy right now might not turn into a place for your DD unless/until you have the formal written offer.

We don't know much about the two individual schools you are choosing between. If they were equivalent to our choices in my area I would choose state.

Here, the state schools have better provision for SEN, and she would be in the middle sets which I think would be good for her self esteem. If you feel confident and at ease, you learn better, right? Our local independent schools are very academic. At these, she would bump along the bottom, always know everyone was else was "better" than her. Not a very nice way to go through secondary, if you don't have to!

Of course, your particular private secondary may be very different.

Also, when life is uncertain, the extra money could come in handy unexpectedly.

A private school I taught in many years ago had a track record for letting pupils move down a year; but in truth this just masked their lack of SEN provision. Bottom of bottom sets and oldest in the year would not be a confidence booster either, plus if your DH has more trouble finding a job than expected might there be a risk of you having to change to a state option - whatever is available at the time plus back into her correct year group.

I would be very concerned about the moving a year thing. Once you have done it there is no turning back and it reduces your choices considerably. State schools generally won't take out of year kids and even some private schools are unkeen. So you are pretty much stuck with the school you are choosing. Which is fine as long as your dd is happy there. But if she isn't - or if your money runs out - then you are in real trouble.

Also - private schools generally do not guarantee a place until 18. They can kick out (or very very nicely but very very firmly suggest that perhaps your shining star would shine brighter somewhere else) pretty much at will. So if your dd is still struggling having moved down a year and going to mess up their GCSE results they may decide it "isn't the right environment for her" at the end of Year 9.

My godfather's son was asked to leave his private school the term before A levels. He had to get his 2 Ds and an E from a local college. Whilst the school boasted to the local papers how 100% of their students got at least 3 Bs. To be fair to the school he was a total slacker who didn't respond to their many many many attempts to get him to buck his ideas up and I wouldn't have wanted him messing up my results either but as he'd been at the school (or their attached prep and pre-prep) since the age of 3 I think the school did bear some responsibility for his complete lack of motivation.

I'm not anti-private - will probably send my two private at 11 - but it is important to take care with them.

I returned from overseas with an 11 year old, and I have dyslexic daughters and a couple of things strike me here. Firstly your DD is going to face a considerable challenge fitting back into the social mores and behaviours of a British School that in Year 7 and 8 are just beginning to become extremely important, once the hormones kick in with true adolescence difference is hard to deal with. My DD skipped into her first day at a private school, it was what she wanted and she had worked hard to get in and she was looking forward to it. She came out with a face like thunder, threw the school fleece that everyone had worn at her International school but no one does at her new school in the boot (never to be worn again, money down drain ) and burst into tears. She did adjust but it was far more difficult than she anticipated and her best friend was and still is another returning expat. Being the very oldest in Year 7 could be a source of difference, you know how that translates in terms of social maturity as opposed to physical age, but I have only known older girls in a year to be a source of problems socially.With both my girls I felt it was very important that we visited the schools and made the decision together and they had some ownership. No one wants an unhappy 15 year old telling you it is all your fault with any justification (they will do it anyway ). By all means make her focus on more reasons than just her friends going but I think you should discuss this with her at length and agree the decision with her, it is her challenge.

Secondly there is a huge variation in attitude and provision for SLDs, as others have said between schools both state and private. You need to explore what support they will give very carefully. Alarm bells would ring if a school was wanting to put a girl returning from overseas with an SLD down a year. Pupils from overseas are rarely as behind as UK schools perceive, maybe in some aspects of attainment but they will have a massive store of resilience and adaptability and in other areas of attainment. It sounds as if they just don't want the hassle of supporting a pupil in areas they are behind, without adequate appreciation of the benefits an International education gives. My DD was in an extremely academic school, one of the most academic in the country but they would never put a pupil up or down, but support / challenge a student within their proper year group socially, and took on expat pupils who perhaps did not make the grade in some areas of attainment knowing from experience they soon catch up and have all sorts to offer a school.

Thank you so much every one who has replied . I really appreciate all your opinions and although I wouldn't say you have made my decisions easier as if anything you are giving me things I hadn't even thought about to consider I really appreciate every one who has replied . I have decided to involve DD in the decision and I will let you now what we decide (decision has to be made by Monday). Just to give you a bit more information although I think my dd is definatley dyslexic (her DB is ) we have had mixed ed psych reports and off the back of that she has had minimal support in school and I am not sure even if we were in school with great SEn support she would qualify to access it (last ed psych report said she wasn't dyslexic which contradicted the previous one!) the private school we are looking at does have support which is available to the student n demand plus referral by teacher (sessions are available for them to choose to attend or not) I am just scared that we choose the state option we will find she is not severe enough to qualify and will not achieve her potential ( although the private asking to leave option terrifies me as well especially if we have dropped a year!)

Private let her start secondary at the same time as everybody else, being august it makes sense. State secondaries are often huge having vague friends is not going to help. Privates are often good at making up in weak areas if the pupil has been abroad they often gave a lot of experience of doing it.