DD not given the second language she wanted - any advice on what to do? Any MFL teachers who can advise?

[topbanana1]

DD is going into year 8. She got given German by the school in year 7 and all children choose a second language to start in year 8. She wanted to do Spanish - her grandparents live in Spain, she's been speaking it for years as we go there once/twice every year. But there are only 2 Spanish groups per year so not all pupils who want Spanish get it, and it's only given to those in the top sets. She was struggling a bit in German initially (rubbish teacher) so I had to do a lot of work with her before her exam to teach her the stuff the German teacher should have done but didn't, and she ended up with good marks in the exam - in the top half of the class which should have ensured she was put in a good German set and therefore eligible for Spanish.

She is going to be beyond gutted to get given the default other language (French) - she has been looking forward to studying Spanish at school for years, bought herself teach-yourself-Spanish courses, talked about wanting to study it at uni etc. She has absolutely no interest in or knowledge of French. She's borderline dyslexic - which affects her ability at spelling - and would make Spanish, with its rigid spelling rules (which she's familiar with) a much better choice than French.

I'm going to try to meet the deputy head/head of languages who wrote to me about it asap to try to get them to change their minds, but am not hopeful, as from experience, once they've made a decision, they don't like to lose face or set a precedent by changing it. I know she'll give up French as soon as she can at the end of year 9 and it's a waste of her - and the school's - time to teach it to her. I love French, personally - but it is not right for her.

I'm now wondering about getting her to study Spanish GCSE outside school instead? Does anyone have any experience of doing language GCSEs outside school? Or starting now and possibly joining the GCSE class at school in year 10, if that is even feasible?

Does anyone have any advice on how to persuade the school? Any language teachers with advice??

I'm dreading seeing her face when she gets back from the school event she's at tonight. :(

And as for the D only mattering to the school- there are circumstances where you most certainly don't want a D on your CV, believe me

Which is avoidable by not sitting the exam.

Which ever way you cut it, the kid has options. She can take Spanish outside of school. She can avoid any cross over confusion by doing the bare minimum in French. She does not have to sit an exam in a language she didn't want to study in the first place.

It is the school who has lost out on the potential for a high grade in one language, getting instead a lower grade or no grade in another.

The OP and her child need to make a priority of her passions. The school's results tables are not their problem.

Which is why it would have made sense for them to have made some attempt to reveal motivations during the option choosing phase. Because there is always the possibility of one option being over subscribed, which means this sort of situation was always a possibility.

Not a language teacher but a teacher. It seems a lot more than she would prefer a different language. Emphasise her motivation and your support. Mention her additional needs. Good luck.
(Mostly I would agree with the suck it up camp but this isn't just I'd really rather prefer!)

Mammuzza, what does the external candidate route mean please? DD1 was able to take her externally studied for exams at her secondary school. I just confirmed with the examinations manager which papers DD was sitting and the examinations manager sorted it all out for us.

The only complication was that no one in the school was able to do the spoken paper with DD1 as it is a minority European language. We found another centre to do this. All other papers were done at the school.

The main thing for us was getting up to speed on the timetable for getting exam entries in and making sure that DD1 was entered into the right thing.

You could approach the school but given that she is likely to struggle with MFL anyway I suspect she'd only be taking one for GCSE. Has she studied any Spanish other than colloquially ? It might be worth her doing something online first to see whether she finds the actual grammar and written work any easier than German or French. You could look at it anther way, she will learn some Spanish anyway and this is a chance to explore other MFL. Languages are also among the most accessible subjects to study at a later date.

She has an aptitude for languages

Most people do to some extent. What the OP's kid has quite possibly similar to what my kid has. Circumstances led to exposure, which gave them confidence from the onset and insulated them from a "oh languages are HARRRRRD!/boring" mindset. So one big barrier to learning is down.

That doesn't mean you can chuck as many languages as you like at the kid and she'll take to it like a duck to water.

Cross over confusion is an issue that can actively hamper some students. They might do very well with a couple of FLs, but throw in a third, particularly if it has much in common with one other being learnt and you get a spanner in the works that means the student doesn't do as well as they should.

What works in those circs is the "bare minimum" stratagy. Kid places the priority on the language they want to learn and protects it from time/energy stealing and cross over confusion from the other.

It's a common enough issue over here where plenty of kids can cope with one or two F.languages, but end up going cross eyed when a third gets plonked into the mix.

There are a lot of GCSE Spanish classes around, as evening classes. Send her on one of those (maybe do it with her). Would probably also be good for her to go to an adult class, interact with adults, etc.

what does the external candidate route mean please?

It means essentially finding the exam centre yourself and doing all the assorted paperwork... and paying.

It terrifed me at first, seemed like so many threads to tie together and the fear of making a right tangle out of it. I think the best way to get to grips with it and ensure it all goes smoothly is via the yahoo group I linked to above. I know it's an HE group, but as long as posting is on exam topics, it's all good. I don't know of any similar school parents group, and this lot have a shedload of experience at guiding parents through all the ins and outs. Their wiki is a god send.

There are a lot of GCSE Spanish classes around, as evening classes. Send her on one of those (maybe do it with her). Would probably also be good for her to go to an adult class, interact with adults, etc.

You would probably find that, due to funding restrictions, she either has to pay a full cost fee or they available to over 19s only, unless not run through a Govt funded organisation.

Thanks for all the messages...

Most frustrating morning - phoned the school, put through to the Head of Languages, who I don't know but sounded quite approachable, had just started to explain my point of view, when the phone line cut off. Called back to have the phone answered by a Virgin Media engineer saying he's at the school repairing a fault at their end, and I should call back! Took 10 mins before I could get through to anyone, by which time the teacher had gone out but leaving me a message to email.

I'd rather have spoken to her and heard her reasons so I could counter them - didn't mention the dyslexia as it was already a very long letter and didn't mention criticisms of her German teacher as I didn't really want to put that in writing, esp if she's going to forward the email to the German teacher for discussion! So I'm now waiting - presumably she needs to discuss this with the German teacher when they're both free (lunch?) and any other cases where parents are querying choices (guess I'm not the only one). So just waiting now...

Good to hear about other kids getting on well with the self-study option. Don't think adult evening classes would work well, yet, as she's still only 11! but maybe in the future.

Alternatively, you could pay for her to do it as a correspondence course (not ideal with a language). But if you go to Spain so much, maybe you and her father speak the language, and could teach her yourselves, using text books, cds and videos? Luckily, as you know, Spanish is a very easy language, and very similar to French, which she will be learning already. Most of the other children won't have the advantage of frequent visits to Spain. She may well learn v quickly.

How about getting a couple of exam papers and see how your DD does with them now? You can get the associated mark scheme and examiners report. This will tell you what was expected as an answer for each question.

You may find that your DD needs a lot less study than you imagine.

The main thing I taught my DD was exam technique.

Hmmm.. Had a reply, saying no can do, as I expected. Oddly, I've been told that all places in Spanish are allocated by lottery. But this goes to contrary to what I've always been told about how places are allocated - and it seems odd that she said she needed to speak to her German teacher first, if places are allocated by random chance anyway.

I've replied, but ....

DD has been v brave but I know is so upset. If it is done as a lottery, why have the girls always been told it's done on merit previously?

Don't get this.

I've been told that all places in Spanish are allocated by lottery

Yeah. They do that here in my local area too. Becuase Spanish is so over subscribed and few actively want to do French.

It's been over a decade where more than 80% want Spanish, but the number of classes offered are about 50/50. Which means a good sized chunk of kids do Spanish outside of school and do the bare minimum in school for French.

Nobody appears to have worked out this might be why our local school's French attainment scores are so low. Or maybe they have, and just keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

On a brighter note, the kids who study Spanish outside of school tend to achive higher results than those in school. Probably becuase they represent a higher concentration of motivated learners.

Thank you so much, Mammuzza. Yet again.

Loved your comment that

"On a brighter note, the kids who study Spanish outside of school tend to achive higher results than those in school. Probably becuase they represent a higher concentration of motivated learners."

Shall tell that to DD. On another brighter note, DH has suggested he could go to evening classes with DD, which would motivate her no end (and solve logistical problems of how she'd get there, as I don't drive).

As a last ditch attempt, I've tried emailing the mums from her class, to ask if anyone else is in the same boat - if nothing else for sympathy - or in case I strike lucky and find someone whose DD doesn't really want Spanish but has got lumbered with it anyway... grin] Not likely, I know - but if I don't ask, I won't find out...

Well it's got to be a win one way or the other really.

Either it is lottery for all, and some Francophiles are feeling blue and are open to a swap.... or it was a case of Spanish being oversubscribed, and others are likely feeling just like you. In which case...one Spanish study club in the making

It'll be alright in the end. To be honest, becuase one of DS's fave subjects has been hard to access, it has forced me out of my previous mindset of providing extra provision ONLY in the weaker areas.

It's been no bad thing for additional resources and explicit parental hands on support being focused on passions and the stuff he is good at for a change. It's a damn sight more fun than dragging them through stuff they hate as well.

Totally love your attitude, Mammuzza! You could have been sent from heaven to cheer me up today - everything you say makes total sense but I'm too down to see it myself.

Love the Spanish study club idea - and the positive support perspective.

And have a and a while I'm at it too. :)

Ohhh

I know how it feels love. We've had our fair share of educational headaches over the years.

You are perfectly entitled to have an initial ARGGGGG! stage. Us less perfect humans need a moment of pissed offness before setting to making lemonade out of the lemons we got instead of the nice "sweet and easy peel" tangerines we had in mind

You never know she might surprise herself and love French.

My dd wanted Spanish and got German. She loves German, by far her favourite subject and she's taken to it like a duck to water and predicted top grades.

All true.

Time to persuade DD that we need to make lemonade!!

Good opportunity to learn some of that much-vaunted resilience.

Ho hum...

Thank you all SO MUCH!!! One of MN's finest threads - really, really constructive (well apart from the occasional 'suck it up' posts) and will really make a difference to my approach and dd's attitude.

You're all great, lovely people. Have a lovely day. :)

Bless her dad wanting to sign up for the evening course with her ??

That made me smile.

:) Me too.

DD is now really excited about learning Spanish outside class and is really engaged in thinking of creative, fun ways to do it!

So thanks all again...