Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Does anyone else NOT do BIOMETRIC payment system thingy?

50 replies

Rooners · 15/07/2014 11:46

We've just got the welcome pack for ds1's new school. In it is a form explaining about the fingeer print recognition thing they are hoping to bring in this September.

I have read all the guff and still feel funny about it. I didn't sign the form agreeing, did some research and found that schools generally (must) have an alternative system in place so it isn't compulsory.

So thought this was Ok only to get a bit of a hard sell phone call from the school this morning which if anything has pushed me further from signing it than I already was.

The person had NO IDEA whether they had an alternative and if so what it was.

I just wanted to canvass opinion really as I feel like a freak, not sure why it makes me so uncomfortable except that ds1 is fairly likely to lose his fingers if that's what he needs to have with him.

OP posts:
Original poster
Rooners · 15/07/2014 17:50

TalkinPeace - well, I think I had it in my head that they would know the kids and say, yes, so and so, you're having dinners and I assume your mum has paid this week so here you go, which option would you like?

Rather than all the children having to take the time to produce evidence of identity before being allowed to eat. iyswim

OP posts:
chemenger · 15/07/2014 17:52

I would love a fingerprint system, at the moment I am for ever paying a pound for lunch cards that are lost, destroyed in the was or lurking in chaotic lockers, even dd could not lose her finger!

chemenger · 15/07/2014 17:52

The wash not the was

OwlCapone · 15/07/2014 17:52

The school want to "pressure" you into using it because it is easier by far for them to have everyone using the same system.

I wish DSs school used finger scanners so they couldn't lose the card. Unfortunately the card also serves as a security access card so I can't see them changing it.

TheFallenMadonna · 15/07/2014 17:55

There can be a thousand odd children in a secondary school.

Producing evidence of identity to the canteen staff (who are not teachers and who need to keep the queue moving) is really not unreasonable at all. Especially when it is really quick to produce!

Children don't want to spend their breaks queuing. This system works really well for that.

Lots of parents struggle with the move to "big school", with the emphasis on big. Some struggle more than their children, to be honest. It's a culture shock.

TalkinPeace · 15/07/2014 17:56

Rooners
The dinner ladies (and they are mostly ladies) will know the kids, they will know their favourites, everything like that - but because they then do not have to ask for cash its all much quicker and friendlier.
Not using cash is also REALLY good for preventing bullying and the like

Original poster
Rooners · 15/07/2014 18:19

Hmmm fair points. Thank you...I feel slightly better about it now I suppose.

You're right, it is a massive culture shock and I don't know if I will ever get past that, especially when he's going to a school I have huge misgivings about already.

I want to go and live in a nice cave and home educate him while weaving flax into doormats and bartering for fruit.

No council tax either that way.

OP posts:
ThrowAChickenInTheAir · 15/07/2014 18:26

It's easy for the pupils so no issue with it.

My gripe is that I find the process of loading on the online payment overly lengthy and tedious ( esp when I put in 3 lots for 3 dc). Maybe just how ours is set up.

BackforGood · 17/07/2014 23:07

I think that cash is MUCH better for the dc, as they have to learn to manage it ; budget it ; deal with it if they forget or lose it.
Whereas I understand this is easier for the school / the catering company, we're going to en up with a load of 18yr olds coming out of school without ever having been responsible for their own money - in the sense of knowing that a 50p buys you a cake and if you have £2.20 you can have a roast dinner, as much as in the sense of literally understanding you need to keep it safe.

yorkshirepuddings · 17/07/2014 23:18

Of course students learn how to use money. School lunch time isn't the only time they buy things - that's ridiculous.

I think you sound a bit over the top. It's a fingerprint used at school. I've read the thread and I still can't understand your reasoning for disliking it so much.

Is this part of a bigger issue - are you struggling with the whole concept of secondary school, your child not being know by all the members of staff and suddenly being one of a big mass of students?

OwlCapone · 18/07/2014 02:53

we're going to en up with a load of 18yr olds coming out of school without ever having been responsible for their own money

LOL.Yes, because the never spend money elsewhere. Ever. School dinners is the only chance they get to use actual money. Hmm

Agggghast · 18/07/2014 03:47

If you really don't want to do it just send him with a packed lunch!

chemenger · 18/07/2014 08:58

It is ludicrous to suggest that not using cash for school lunches will render young adults unable to manage money. Using daft arguments will not help your point. Cash at school is a bad idea, it gets lost, mislaid and stolen. There is no way to prove ownership of a random pound coin on the floor, nobody can claim your finger as their own.

LOLeater · 18/07/2014 10:02

My dd used this biometric system at her school to borrow library books. Very quick and efficient.

But the suspicious part of me agrees with you OP. it makes me feel uneasy. Since time began Governments and authorities have made use of information and I'm sure most of the time it's good. Until it invades your privacy.

By law all UK drivers have to ensure that the DVLA has their correct address and details. Yep, no problem with that.

Until the DVLA decides to sell those details to private car parking c

LOLeater · 18/07/2014 10:05

Sorry, private car park companies who are little better than cowboys. There are always moral issues to do with personal information. This system is harmless but I see the technology being used in future years to control, monitor, supervise a population.

I don't think your child's school will do that but if you are uncomfortable don't sign. It's that simple! And packed lunches are better anyway...

OwlCapone · 18/07/2014 11:55

I see the technology being used in future years to control, monitor, supervise a population

How?

TalkinPeace · 18/07/2014 13:37

Speaking as the parent of teenagers whose school uses a biometric system, I can only assume that the doom mongers do not have older kids.

Yesterday DD got the bus to the train, met friends, went out for the day including buying lunch and clothes
because using cashless for lunch a few days a year has NO IMPACT on how I bring my kids up to understand money.

almondcakes · 18/07/2014 13:58

I really dislike cashless systems. When DD's school introduced it (and we were given an alternative to the finger print), we had very little money.

We also didn't have internet connection all the time.

That meant I had to get a bus to the nearest town, take in the cashless payment card, and hand over cash at the counter to get money put on the card. Unless I was going to be going there all the time, I had to put a fairly large sum of money on the card.

Now, I may have 2 to give DD for lunch on a particular day, but instead I now have to have 10 or 20 spare to put on a lunch card all at once. Fortunately DS's school did not have a cashless system so he could still just take in the 2, otherwise I would have to find 40 all in one go and get a bus to the spar and back (adding on 4 for bus fare).

This is all a big deal to people with little money. And now FSM is further restricted, there's more people wondering about how to budget for this and worrying about what to do if the card runs out of money. Without constant internet access, you can't just look up to see if it is running low, you don't know how much has been spent on it etc or if your child spends too much one day, and if you do have internet, the child can still accidently spend the money too quickly before you can afford to top up the card. They just end up having spent the money too quickly and having no money on the card until the parent finds the next 20.

2 in a child's hand each day is 2, and you know they can go and buy a lunch. So we gave up and DD took sandwiches, because then I can be certain she has lunch.

And I spoke to education welfare at the time, and they said lots of parents have these issues, and they always ask schools to inform them when they are introducing cashless payment for meals because education welfare then has to try and help parents and mediate the system so that kids don't go hungry.

OwlCapone · 18/07/2014 14:23

I really dislike cashless systems.

To be fair, you dislike the cashless system at your DDs school. DSs can be topped up online or using cash at school (which seems a bit counterproductive but is useful in an emergency!)

almondcakes · 18/07/2014 15:09

Owl, yes, I would be quite happy with a system where the school allowed kids to take in small sums of money as and when they could afford to and use that. But that's not a cashless system!

TalkinPeace · 18/07/2014 15:27

almondcakes
your school may not have the cash in the building at all
most do
DCs school you send in a £10 note - child takes it to the office first thing and its loaded onto their finger
the cash enters the school (same as it does for trips and all the other things schools sell)
but it is NOT in the canteen or kicking around all day
AND
the FSM kids get their accounts topped up electronically

there are lots and lots of system
if your one is rubbish, ask them to change it

OwlCapone · 18/07/2014 16:11

But that's not a cashless system!

It is at point of use.

TalkinPeace · 18/07/2014 17:10

same as all school trips - the cash and the experience are separated in time

mipmop · 18/07/2014 18:21

There's nothing wrong with questioning the way that our personal data is gathered or used, organisations should be prepared to answer these questions as it's they're legally required to do so. Children should learn why this is important.

Children posting their personal info on social media is their own choice and they need to know the dangers. IMO children should know why giving out their birthday / passport number / address can be risky, and should be involved in these decisions so they learn that it's okay to question an organisation's request to gather personal data.

Like not giving bank account details to doorstep charity collectors, or not giving personal info to shops who want to sign you up to mailing lists. I would hope responsible schools would explain to children and parents why the fingerprint system is in place, how it works (the number translation, if that's the case), how long their data will be stored for, who can access it and why etc.

camptownraces · 19/07/2014 13:24

"what sort of school is it where people are stealing my child's money?"

every sort of school, especially cash left in blazer pockets, backpacks...
you get this in EVERY sort of school.

does this 11 year old need cash for his bus fare?

New posts on this thread. Refresh page