I think maybe I've been a bit hard on DS1

[Frontier]

He's in yr8 and in middle sets in a 10 form school. I think that's poor and have been worried he'll never get any decent GCSEs (or whatever they will be then)

I went to an 8 form school (30 years ago) and only the top set got to take O-Levels, the bottom 4 sets weren't expected to achieve anything academically at all.

I have belatedly come to realise that there's a huge difference between the terrible school I went to and the slightly higher than average achieving school DS is at. Also, current educational standards and aspirations.

Anyway, his end of yr8 levels are 5as and 6c/bs. I thought that's pretty poor because of the number of Mnetters whose DC get level 5a/6 before leaving primary but in the real world, that's not actually that bad...is it? What does that mean in terms of his place among his peers and his prospects for GCSE and maybe A Levels and Uni?

Why are you so obsessed with comparing him to others? Surely if he is achieving to the best of his ability you should be proud of him whatever his scores are?

I'm proud of him for lots of reasons Faux but we live in a competitive world, if he's going to go to Uni and/or get a decent job he's going to be judged against others.

There are certain levels he needs to achieve to have the opportunity to choose what his future might hold and I would like to know how he's faring.

Not everyone has to do A levels and go to uni. Does he have any career goals yet? Is he working to the best of his ability?

He'll be fine with that as long as he does his work. I generally go by the vague rule that if they can get a 5/6 in Year 9, they can get a C at GCSE.

My son is just about to leave yr 7 and at the beginning of the year was set targets to achieve by the end if year 8 . Based on my sons targets who is in top set for everything your son is doing great. Has your son met his targets for end of key stage 3? If so I don't think you have anything to worry about. If there was a problem I'm sure the school would have contacted you.

Ultimately you can only judge his achievements by HIS ability and HIS level of effort. Not by comparing them with your own or those of his peers. Deciding that his levels are 'poor' is a fairly meaningless judgment. Either he is capable of higher levels or he isn't. If he is capable of more, then maybe he does need more motivation to work a little harder. But if he is doing the best he can, giving him a hard time is unkind and will ultimately be counter-productive and de-motivating, however keen you are for him to be able to compete later.

I know schools seem to push the idea of uni as the be all and end all these days but it's not a necessity for a lot of jobs. Not all 'good' jobs necessarily need top grades at GCSE either. My brother is training on the job as a chef for example. Plenty of jobs offer vocational courses t college or apprenticeships. It all depends on what he wants. If he wants to be a doctor he'll need top grades and a degree. If he wants to be a plumber he probably doesn't. I know a lot of peoe who've gone to uni, got a degree and then ended up working in jobs that don't require a degree, but it was expected that they would go to uni.

Of course not everyone goes to Uni and of course everyone can only do what they are capable of but it's very hard to get an idea of what he is capable of, which is the reason I'm asking where his current grades might lead him.

ATM he's not working very hard IMO (although seems to be doing what the school is asking of him. Less than an hour's HW per week). I think he could do better if he applied himself but getting him to do that is easier said than done.

I don't think it's unreasonable to want to know if he's heading towards the 5 A-C requirement or if we might need to get him some extra help at some point to achieve that. Maybe he won't need it for the path he chooses but getting it would mean he actually has some choice.

Oh, FFS of course we live in a competitive world, of course the OP wants to know how well her DS is doing relative to his peers, what GCSE grades he's likely to get and wether they are good enough to plan for sixth form and beyond.

The fact that most DCs progress seems to slow down in Y7 and 8 is really confusing to most parents. It confused me at first.

Senior schools, award levels pretty conservatively. My top set DD1 has only got 6a for English and 6b for maths at the end of Y8. She will almost certainly get A*and A at GCSE.

DD1 only had L5 in Y8, but hopefully (results in Aug) will have As and Bs at GCSE.

Levels don't tell the whole story, you need to talk to your son, to the teachers and keep a watch on his attitude to school and work. And that doesn't mean worrying about every bit of HW. It means ensuring he understands the value of doing well over all, that he has a positive attitude to the idea of education and putting in effort when needed. That doesn't necessarily mean liking every teacher, doing well in every subject or never getting detention.

It's subtler and harder to define, but very important for middle set DCs. DD1 has some DFs who turn up for drama rehearsals, do their maths papers, read their set books and contribute in class and some who don't. Come results day there are going to be Cs and Ds where bothering about a controlled assessment or having bothered to read the revision notes could have made so much difference for not much effort.

It is a competitive world, but going to university is not the only way to 'compete'. What is your son interested in? A good apprenticeship might be the way forward for him. My husband and I both have doctorates, but my carpenter bil is the one with the huge house and numerous holidays abroad every year. He got the equivalent of 6 good GCSEs and was selected for a very competitive apprenticeship because of his great enthusiasm, preparation for the interview and because the selector had seen him performing street dance and respected that he did something constructive with his spare time.

LOL, Nan you just defeated your own argument. If your BIL got a place on a very competitive apprenticeship, he probably needed those 6 GCSEs as well as his other strengths

I didn't go to Uni, I don't think he "needs" to go to Uni, I'm just trying to establish what his realistic aims might be.

Thank you Elephants

Sorry that should be DD2 for the Y8 grades.
Both are equally bright, but DD1 is dyslexic and has muddled through in middle sets where her speed of written work fits, but her ability doesn't. This gives her a certain amount of time for people watching. It's her observations I gave above.

Basically, unlike in our day, middle sets are taught to A/Bplus standard and the teachers do a huge amount of chasing and revision classes, but some DCs still don't care.

Ensuring your DS isn't one of them is the challenge.

Less than an hours homework a week doesn't sound right. My son has this amount most nights and in holidays will have a long project to do for one subject like history. Every 3 months we have a progress check with his form teacher too so we can discuss any concerns we might have about ds learning or query about behaviour or targets set. If you are concerned I would arrange a meeting with his form tutor before they break up.

Frontier - your son sounds like my ds3 - he didn't work hard at school, and was not achieving what we thought he could, throughout senior school - until he hit Year 11, his exam year (we are in Scotland, and these exams are called Standard Grades, not GCSEs, but these are the exams they sit at 16).

All of a sudden, he became a lot more self-motivating, with regards to school work, and he got a decent set of exam results - better than we were expecting, to be honest.

He has just finished his Highers (the exams they sit up here at the end of year 12), and I think he has worked harder for these than he did for his Standard Grades - he tells me that he thinks he did. The results are not in yet, but I can definitely see a big improvement in his attitude to his work, and his grasp of the fact that his future depends, to a large extent, on how he does in school now.

His older brothers were also pretty lackadaisical about homework and working hard at school when they were in the earlier years of senior school - but were both bright enough that they were able to achieve good results without working so hard. But again, they did have a bit of a revelation when it got to the exam years, and buckled down to work.

Of course you need to compare a little to have some frame of reference to understand just where your ds stands. You need to know this so you can support him and plan for the future.

Sorry, my kids are in primary school still, so I can't answer your question. I just wanting to chime in that I think you are justified in asking it, and it doesn't mean that you are comparing in a harmful way.

Thanks Toomany. If nothing else I need to know if I can spend the University money but also (really) to understand what avenues he/we should be looking at for his future. If Uni isn't an option for him then we need to have a look at other avenues, if it is, provided he works hard enough, or gets a bit of extra support then we need to make sure that happens, to at least allow him the choice.

Hi Frontier - yes, you'd definitely need the GCSEs to get a good apprenticeship. But 5-6 sounds like the kind of thing your DS could realistically achieve if he's of average academic ability (currently about 60% of pupils get the 'magic 5'). Just saying that uni isn't for everyone, and the decent 'basics' of 5 GCSEs including maths and English, combined with a good attitude and willingness to learn on the job can take you a long way.

Yes those 5 C or above GCSEs are very important. DF could not get her DS to see that and it caused no end of grief with collage courses.

He really thought they'd take him, despite his DM telling him they wouldn't. Of course they didn't and he had to spend a year doing something he didn't want to do.

His mother works in a FE collage, but teen boys know best!