Too late for Grammar School?

[bughunt]

We went for a look round Sale Grammar School last week and dd (y5) is now interested in going there after previously showing no interest at all.
Are we mad to think she has a shot at this despite no previous work/preparation being done?

Her last report (Feb) gave her 4a for English comprehension and 4b for maths. Apparently she has done level 5 tests this year, but we have yet to be given the report/levels.

Are these levels high enough

I'm not interested in hothousing her, but realize she will need some practice to familiarize herself with tests and to gain some speed and confidence. However, having had a look on the internet, I'm somewhat overwhelmed with the volume of material available and haven't a clue where to start.

I'm thinking that an hour a week of practice between now and then would be good, but what to practice?? I understand that the CEM tests aren't available as practice papers, so what is a good substitute.

I would be very grateful for any ideas of whether and how to approach this.

TIA

Not necessarily too late. My daughter is at one of the so-called 'super-selective' grammars and we didn't do any special practice until 2-3 weeks before the test. My son is in Yr 5 and we haven't done any practice yet. I plan to start sooner than last time (that was a bit last minute) but not that much sooner.

However he is a level 5a/b now (as I think my daughter was 2 yrs ago) and I think that would be more typical of those going to these schools.

Thanks irregular. That's good to hear.

Can ask what you plan to do with your son and how often? And whether you're going to do it yourself?

I looked at summer schools but it all looked a bit full on. Not sure that approach is right for dd.

I'll go through some practice tests with him myself. Maybe once a week at first then build up. We'll see how it goes - in some ways I think it may be easier to have a short, focused effort like we did with DD so it doesn't get boring. During those two weeks I asked her class teacher if we could take a break from homework (they don't get much anyway tbh) and told her piano teacher that we wouldn't be doing much practice. That freed up some time.

You certainly need to get them used to the type of questions asked and managing their time in an exam, but the learning curve flattens out pretty quickly.

Cheers, much appreciated.

To be honest I would much rather pupils take the test with only minimal practice because then you know if they do pass that it is a pass based on capability and not swatting. That suggests that when things do get tougher later on in the school, they will cope as opposed to some of those that have crammed for ever for the 11+ exam.
What you should do is get them used to the kind of test that they will be taking and you need to ask Sale Grammar for the info on what kind of tests they are.

If the op's dd is sitting the 11+ exam in 2 months time and has yet to do any work then it's hardly "hothousing" if she prepares during the summer holidays. Half the children sitting the exam will have been preparing for a year or more. It's not too late to start now but I would suggest that 1 paper per week is not enough - don't be fooled into thinking it's a level playing field when it comes to 11+ exams despite what the school/admissions team say. Have you looked at the forum for your area on www.elevenplusexams.co.uk ?

No, not at all. Just look over the papers and endure DD knows what everything is and how to go about answering the question. Make sure DD knows how to handle them then go for it. If you don't try you will never know.
As long as you let her know that as long as she tries her best then thats good enough.
If at the end of the day it doesn't work out reassure her that it doesn't matter at the end of the day because maybe that wasn't the school for you ect.
Please, whatever you do, don't pressure her because this is the recipe for failure. Reassurance and encouragement will get you there in the end.
Good Luck :)

SGS will be using the Durham test next year for the first time and there are no practice or past papers for this, as I understand it. There are a few 'familiarisation' questions on SGS website which dd could do, but that appears to be it.

clavinova I have had a good look at that website and they recommend a wealth of alternative study materials, but it's a little overwhelming with only 2 months to go. I was hoping for some guidance here, which is why I named the school. Otherwise I could see me wasting money and time on the wrong material for the stage we're at.

ebaneezer that's definitely our approach, and we are very happy with our other (non grammar) school choice too, which dd knows.

Had a quick google and CGP do a range of study books and practice papers for CEM Durham 11+. You can flick through some of the pages on Amazon or download free sample papers on the CGP website (although I couldn't open them on my computer). Would 4 hours a week be too much for you both if she's keen? I see that Ladymuck has admitted to doing 7 hours a week with her ds last summer and he passed all the Sutton exams. Do they run any mock exams in your area?

Thanks clavinova. I've ordered the CEM practice papers and have agreed 4 hours a week with dd. She's keen at the moment. We've missed the mock exams unfortunately other than some ridiculously expensive ones.

I'm going to have a word with her teacher about not doing her homework as admission mentioned. Dd tells me they're only practising for sports day or the play in school at the moment anyway.

Her after school activities are tailing off now too (she does far too many), and most stop for the summer so we can get our heads down and concentrate.

Thanks all for suggesting we do have a chance. I think this system is so flawed.

Bond online have CeM style questions. You can sign up for a minimum of 3 months.
Sale grammar (according to forums) had less applicants last year and the out of catchment pass score was much lower than in previous years. However, sale grammar is an excellent school that produces excellent GCSE results. A couple of months practice should be more than enough to get a bright child through but I think you need to do more than one paper a week over the sumner.mOne paper of each subject per week is probably more realistic due to the vast range of possible question types.
They usually say a child should be at 4a/5c to stand a good chance of getting a grammar place and keeping up when they start.

Dd is 4a/5c, so that's a good start. That's interesting about the lower number of applicants last year, I didn't know that. Thanks for the advice missunreasonable

Definitely go on the 11plus forum referred to above - lots of info & support. They have good vocab lists which your dc can learn the meaning of which will be helpful wherever they go to school. Treat any prep they do as a good head start not just for 11plus but for their secondary education generally. In my DCs Grammar the children who were hothoused tend to be the ones who then struggle without the extra tutoring support. By doing things yourself at home you are still tutoring your child but doing so when it suits you and them, rather than stressing about getting to outside tutors (some may be brilliant but many are not). If you take things calmly you will actually get to spend quality time with your DC and see how well they can think for themselves etc. I diy'd 11plus with my DC & the important thing we found was to keep a log of what we did, when we did it in a notebook. It was good to see progress that way. We did write down scores and what they had found difficult so they knew what to focus on and could celebrate small milestones achieved. Good luck!

PS some parents are savvy enough to work out where a similar style CEM test is elsewhere (ie in a different county / region) and register their DC for that as a dummy run. Only works if your 11plus test day is later than theirs though. Some private schools also do CEM tests so may be worth a financial investment of the registration fee if the dates work.

Thanks sleepsoon some good ideas there.