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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Idiot mother alert - Missed deadline for choosing language in yr 7

31 replies

MinginInTheRain · 01/07/2014 23:26

I am an idiot. First ever post - feel like I've let my DD down dreadfully. My DD is off to secondary school and we received a massive pack of forms to fill in once her place was confirmed.

We were also signposted to the school website for more information to 'aid her transition to Year 7'. I tried to access website without much luck and called school but to be honest I thought that the most important forms (ie those requiring action or signatures) had been sent by post.

I have just found out that on the website was a letter regarding a modern language to be taught in Yr 7. This language will be taught alongside Latin. InYear 8 Latin can be dropped in favour of another language or the first modern language can be swapped.

The letter didn't ask for first, second preference etc but just asked parents to inform the school if they had a particular reason for wanting a specific language.

So basically I have missed my opportunity to choose the language my DD will learn for potentially the next 5 years. I am guessing she won't be keen on Latin as she wants to focus on modern languages and has talked about doing them for GCSE and beyond.

I have talked to the school but no joy. Is it wierd that language choice is decided in such a hidden way? I would have thought this letter should have been right at the front of Welcome Pack that came in the post.. Certainly above a form to give permission to take DD photo or the one evolving how canteen works!!!

I'm in the kaka! Any advice for me to rectify this before my DD realises what has happened?

OP posts:

gymboywalton · 01/07/2014 23:30

Well do you have a specific reason for wanting her to study a certain language? I imagine it means things like ...if your child is bilingual and fluent in a language iyswim??

Hakluyt · 01/07/2014 23:30

You say the language will be taught alongside Latin- so she will do Latin whatever. So what modern foreign languages are on offer? Usually it's Spanish, French or German- doesn't really matter which one she does. So stop panicking!

sunbathe · 01/07/2014 23:33

So she gets to do a ml anyway, as well as Latin?

And can then change the ml a year later and drop Latin in favour of another ml?

It doesn't sound so bad, tbh. Have I misunderstood?

Farahilda · 01/07/2014 23:40

Did they tell you what language she's been assigned alongside Latin?

MirandaWest · 01/07/2014 23:46

It sounds like if you have a particular reason for wanting your child to study a certain language that they wanted to know by a certain date, so the can work out the timetable, but not saying anything doesn't preclude your child from studying a modern language; it's just you won't have given a preference.

steppemum · 01/07/2014 23:53

She can do a ML, she just doesn't get to express a preference for French or Spanish or...

Is that a big problem? Did she have a strong preference?

My friend's ds school is like this, and they needed him NOT to do French as he is bi-lingual French. In their case, if you phoned the school, I would imagine the school would be understanding (easier on the french teacher not to have one fluent speaker in a class of novices)

But if it is just a preference, then it is not really a bog deal is it?

Original poster

MinginInTheRain · 01/07/2014 23:58

Thank you for your speedy responses!

I do have a preference - it's for Spanish. Has been learning herself, has Spanish friends who we see a lot of and she loves the language. I know it's wierd but she has strong opinions on what she wants to study. Already looking on school website re GCSE options!

If for eg she gets German (worst case scenario, French would be ok) will have to continue with it until GCSE (then drop if she hates it) and drop Latin in yr 8 favour of Spanish. If she prefers Latin then she drops German and takes Spanish in Yr 8. But, again I know it's wierd, she wants to do 2 modern languages at GCSE (and possibly beyond). It's one if reasons we chose school - it's got language specialism.

I know it sounds precious but it's a big deal for her. Feel I've missed the boat on something pretty important for her.

Feel free to tell me I'm fussing over nothing though. I want to believe it's nothing but I fear it's going to be very disappointing for her when she finds out.

OP posts:

SixImpossible · 02/07/2014 00:06

I don't think it's at all a disaster, whichever language she gets. Latin has influenced all four of English, French, German and Spanish, so it could be quite useful. A year more or less is not going to affect her badly at this stage. If anything, getting a head start on a different language could be quite good, as she already has a head start on Spanish. And if she is interested in MFLs then German and Spanish is probably a better combination than French and Spanish.

Original poster

MinginInTheRain · 02/07/2014 00:13

Thank you siximpossible. That does sound positive! Could you explain how German Spanish is a better mix than French Spanish? I'm thinking of opportunities to practise language and we would never holiday in Germany but often do in France. Selfish possibly but practise is key for languages I think

OP posts:

Original poster

MinginInTheRain · 02/07/2014 00:14

I also remember learning German at school and it's not a language that trips off the tongue... Apologies for offending any German speakers!

OP posts:

SixImpossible · 02/07/2014 00:41

Learning languages is IMO not just about communicating on holiday. It is also about developing the mind and broadening our scope for understanding novel concepts.

Structurally, Spanish and French are fairly similar. Much of the vocabulary overlaps. German, however, is very different. Like Latin, it is an inflected language (remember 'cases' and 'declensions'). Although it is more complex than French or Spanish, it is far more regular.

Latin IMO complements and supports any European language. German is completely different to Spanish, yet they are linked by Latin. Learning German and Spanish will stretch your dd and develop her language skills enormously. More so, because of the different structures, than learning French and Spanish.

Original poster

MinginInTheRain · 02/07/2014 06:47

Thank you for that explanation siximpossible.

I will try and sell it to DD in those terms if she gets assigned German.

I guess I am also thinking about the number of countries in which Spanish and French are spoken and how useful knowledge of them will be in her future career.

Will call to school again today to see what they can do.

OP posts:

Hakluyt · 02/07/2014 06:54

"The letter didn't ask for first, second preference etc but just asked parents to inform the school if they had a particular reason for wanting a specific language. "

Bear in mind that doesn't say that you would definitely get the language you want even if you do express a preference. Don't make it into a big deal with your dd- and don't grovel or apologise top much (if at all). There will always be things she doesn't want to do- getting on with them is an important lesson to learn.

Ilovecake80 · 02/07/2014 06:57

You have had some good advice already.

However the school is at fault here, something as important as choosing which language to study should have been sent in a letter. You then called the school to say you couldn't access website their cue to say there is this important ...

Hope you have some luck ringing the school today.

Hakluyt · 02/07/2014 07:01

But the letter says that in year 8 the language can be swapped, or Latin can be dropped in favour of another MFL. So the very worst that can happen is she will be doing a language she doesn't prefer for a year.

OP- please don't beat yourself up about this for a single further second!!!!!

Shahsham · 02/07/2014 07:07

There are a LOT of business links between the UK and Germany, so from a career point of view, German is a good choice.

I live in France. English is usually the first ML and often the high achieving children choose German as the second language as its seen to be more 'impressive' than Spanish for example, as its not similar to French.

Original poster

MinginInTheRain · 02/07/2014 07:20

Thank you everyone.

I guess it's hard for me because she was talking about future ideas/careers (she's only 11 but she thinks ahead!) and was talking about doing two MFL for GCSE. The school encourages this which is great but it feels as though the choice of language for yr 7 is really important - as it will be the first MFL followed by the second one which can start in Yr 8 (once Latin dropped). She cannot drop this first language. It will remain through to GCSE if she wants to do 2 MFL. Hence my feeling that's it's actually quite important to get that decision right now.

Hakluyt - I will try not to beat myself up about it but feel pretty crap - if everyone was assigned randomly well fine - but it just feels I missed something that could really matter down the line.

Shasham - that's interesting too re the similarities between French and Spanish.

OP posts:

Lovecat · 02/07/2014 07:36

I studied German at school and really enjoyed it - until it got to 5th year (sorry, old! I think that translates as Yr 9 or 10?) when it suddenly ramped up a huge amount in terms of difficulty with grammar and cases. Perhaps we didn't have a particularly great teacher, but we all (in the top set of a fairly academic school) found ourselves floundering.

On one level I don't regret studying it because it taught me a lot about how English grammar is structured (again, child of the 70's and we didn't get much formal tuition in grammar), but I do regret 'wasting' an O Level - it was the only O level I failed (grade D) through sheer incomprehension of the various rules of the language (although I can get by speaking/reading it - if you go to certain parts of Spain all the menus are in German!) and it still annoys me.

If they're already doing Latin they will get that education in grammar and structure of language, so I personally would see if you can contact the school to find out what she has been assigned/see if it's not too late to change if it's German.

ShoeWhore · 02/07/2014 07:44

The school hasn't promised a choice of language anyway so I think you should stop beating yourself up OP.

Our secondary actually stopped letting parents choose as everyone wanted French not German - interesting to hear some different views on it on this thread, it's reassured me. Although I still have a preference for French just because I could support the homework much better.

Original poster

MinginInTheRain · 02/07/2014 07:44

Thanks lovecat. I studied German too and maybe that is influencing my aversion to it.

I am trying to contact school today but don't think they will do much apart from think bloody fussy mother. Sort of true but hey it's my DD's education - sue me!

OP posts:

ShoeWhore · 02/07/2014 07:45

It's brilliant that she's being offered Latin btw! I learned a lot from doing it for a year.

mychildrenarebarmy · 02/07/2014 07:57

My DD is the same age as yours and I completely understand where you are coming from about her planning ahead. Mine is the same. This is how I would approach it with her......
She already speaks some Spanish soooooooo "this is a perfect opportunity for you to try out Latin and (whatever language the school put her in for) for a year to see if you enjoy those as much. Then in Year 8 you can swap one of them for Spanish if you still want to. If you don't then because of our friends, and your love of it, you will have GCSEs in two languages and a very good standard of spoken Spanish."

LeapingOverTheWall · 02/07/2014 08:01

DD1 did German and Latin at GCSE (German from Y7, Latin added as a lunchtime club in Y9 and then GCSE from Y10), and the Latin really helped the German - they were learning the same grammar rules for each at the same time.

FWIW, having a Latin GCSE is a good thing for her CV - DD is now 20 and everyone who has seen her CV has been impressed with the Latin, as it's seen as a "hard" GCSE.

TortoiseUpATreeAgain · 02/07/2014 08:03

There wasn't a "deadline for choosing a language", there was a deadline for expressing a preference which it sounds as though the school was quite prepared to ignore anyway.

If she is seriously interested in languages then German and Spanish will set her up better than French and Spanish because it will give her a foothold in two language families (in my early 20s I could make a good stab at following written Dutch based on having done German O-level, for example). It's a shame that it would give her no choice over dropping Latin, but it sounds as though she doesn't want to do that to GCSE anyway.

She can always keep up the Spanish outside school, too.

Kikaninchen · 02/07/2014 08:12

The way you write it, it makes it sound more like you can express a strong preference for which language you want, rather than choose.

Presumably they don't have to accommodate those preferences anyway.

Have the languages already been assigned at this stage? It might be that they give all the students some kind of language aptitude test once term starts to decide which language to assign them to - they did this at my school, although we were allowed to state a preference too.

Also at my school, those who did particularly well in the language aptitude test were assigned to study German, unless they really really had strong feelings about it; German was considered a slightly more challenging language to learn.

I would say German plus French or Spanish (or Latin) rather than two Romance languages could be seen as a very good choice for GCSE - she might well be able to study whichever one she doesn't take at GCSE in the 6th form anyway, as having a background in Spanish would be a help for French, and vice versa.

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