Modern languages at Secondary

[MySoreBack]

Hi all

I'm in Haringey borough and have just been to Open Day at Hornsey School for Girls where I found out that in Years 7-9 kids can only study 1 language, French or Spanish but not both. Now a search on websites of other local schools seems to suggest this is pretty much the pattern across the board. I'm very disappointed! Surely kids should be given the opportunity if they have the aptitude an interest. I found it particularly ironic when the Head was saying how wonderful it was that 62 different languages were spoken in the school (yet they can only study one!). Does anyone know if this is a national pattern and pretty much all schools would be the same?

In our school you take french and German in alternate years

In year 8 you get the option to do both for two years before you decide on GCSEs

Ds1 stopped doing both of them

BackforGood sounds like your school got it about right offering a wide range of languages and allowing those with an interest to move forward.
Personally I thinks all DCs have the potential to learn a MFL, after all we all learn to speak, so acquiring a language must be a pretty innate skill. So why are schools failing to inspire. Maybe the EB will reverse the trend. Despite the difficulties my DC encountered it was good he studied one MFL. Although I doubt he remembers much now. For MFL to survive they need to be viewed as something you do all the time. My nephew lives in Holland and learns English(American) from watching cable TV

Schools are not failing to inspire hairpinharriet. We have wonderful MFL teachers in my school, and I'm so lucky to work with them. The GCSE syllabus is a dry as bloody dust, and that's being generous.

To those of you looking at teaching as a career choice for you or your family - DON'T. Workload and stress are ridiculous. Don't go near it. I know, I'm an MFL teacher.

My DD1 is enjoying both her GCSE MFLs so far. (But first CA is only just coming up so it all may change in y11).

Though we did laugh when we went to the Canary islands at Easter after only 2 terms of learning Spanish. She knew how to say that her uncle died of lung cancer, but couldn't ask for an extra spoon!

My children could do French, Spanish and Latin (and their siblings could do/did French, German and Latin and Greek). The private schools seem happy with several languages if that is what the child wants and require at least one.

Languages are hard so children who are lazy (most of them) like to avoid them of course.

Not meaning to imply that teachers are not inspirationally far from it, but for MFL to survive it needs to be more integrated into the curriculum. In Germany, English is taught from primary age and it is a given that nearly everyone will learn it. In Asia it is common for pupils to learn several languages.
My DC could tell me all about teenage alcoholism in German but not how to get to a train station. DD did a presentation on global warming for AS French. She felt it would have been more interesting if the French she learnt was something she could use everyday.

I'm bit concerned if an AS student hasn't learned French they could use every day. Our first term in Year 7 sees students learn how to ask and answer questions about their name, how old they are, where they live, what they like doing etc.

Don't think we are all that unusual!

I think doing one is better than splitting the time between 2.

I had 5 periods of French. Another local school did 2 periods each of French and German.

In 3rd year you could do the existing choice or also pick up a new one.

In 6th year you could do a crash course in Russian as well.

Wow 5 lessons of French in a week? Impressive. We do three of each MFL and our lessons are less than an hour. DD's school where lessons are an hour just has two of whatever MFL they do :(

My son did French in Year 7 and chose another language in Year 8. I think this only applies to the top half of the year though.

Are no schools offering Mandarin? I hoped this would be becoming more common. I'm a big supporter of learning languages but more and more feeling Spanish and Mandarin would be a more useful range than French and German. I'm happy to be corrected if there is some reason for French being so universal in secondary (I learned it and loved it but rarely use it)

German is valid IMO because of its much wider use than Spanish in industry (engineering is big where I live and there are lots of connections to Germany).

I agree re Mandarin but the issue may be a lack of teachers. I certainly don't know anyone who speaks it at all in the UK.

The problem seems to be that in a lot of schools the 'brightest' kids have to do triple science, which leaves little room for much else among arts and humanities. This makes no sense to me. Why does being 'bright' mean being good at the sciences specifically? Kids have aptitudes in different areas. Is this because the sciences are seem as more academically demanding than other subjects. I don't buy this either. I can see from the many posts above that it does differ a lot depending on where you are (again, really annoying) but our 3 local secondaries all have the triple science pattern. I always thought my daughter would just go to a local school but I'm starting to see there's a lot more to consider...

Dds go to a private school. They are offered Mandarin, French or German in yr7, all do Latin in yrs 7, 8 & 9. They are offered French, Italian, Spanish, German, Mandarin or Russian as ML2 in year 8. In yr 10 they are also offered Greek. I had similar choices

I don't agree that 3 sciences means no time for other subjects. Mine are doing 3 sciences, English lit and lang, maths, French, geog, history and music. Plenty of boys in their class are doing French and Spanish or French and Latin (mine did not want to do two languages) and loads of the children in the school who speak another language at home will do their native tongue out of school too.

No I don't agree either. But our local schools don't allow kids to do more than 3 options, from what I can see from their prospectuses (so max. of 3 from history, geography, art, music, French, Spanish and anything else that is not a core subject). I've found one school (we're not in the catchment, though we're quite near) that does offer 4 options, and you can do 2 sciences rather than 3 if you want to. This is an Academy school. Is this the key? If you are an Academy you can choose how the curriculum is offered?

At our local comp it's French in year 7. French and German in year 8. Then in year 9 you can do French, German or both (you have to be on a very good level to do both) Then at GCSE you can do French, German or Spanish or no languages at all.

I think it just varies between state and private sector and different types of school. My sons' school requires everyone in their year to do english lit and lang, maths, 3 sciences (although if you really struggle that can drop to 2 sciences in GCSE year) - so that is 6. Then you choose from the others and mine are doing geog, history, french and music - so 10. Some will be doing French, Spanish and Latin. Others might do drama, RE, art. I think most do either geog or history. One or two who are really struggling have been allowed to give up their one language.

Just looked at my year 7s timetable and he has 4 lessons of French a week next year he will add another language and latin as well

I went to a private school. As well as the 5 French classes we did the 3 sciences- lots of the parents were doctors and lots of my classmates are doctors now so it was assumed most people would do 3 sciences.

Our school day was 8-4 with 8 x 40 minute classes per day.

French was everyday. Physics was one double period every week. At the start chemistry and biology rotates the other double period a week (more chemistry).

Once we were down to 8 subjects for standard grade from 3rd year there would be 2 x double periods of each science pwk so 12 science classes for the wannabe med students.

French was still 5. A second language got 4 periods.

English and maths got 6 classes each pwk.

My son is at a state grammar school with a MFL specialism. He has 3 x 50 minute lessons a week each for French, his Y7 language, and Japanese, his Y8 language. That seems to be sufficient.
My bugbear is that they had to do RE (he has done the minimum, a Short Course pass in Y9). Also, tbh, I would question making everyone do music, drama or art GCSE. It's just dawned on me that this how I fitted in three languages to O level. I was able to bin RE and art/music/needlework (drama in its infancy as an O level back in ye olden days). It has not stunted me creatively or spiritually...I sing in two choirs, I am a demon knitter and I am active in my local church. I think languages should be given the same prominence as creative subjects in schools, and children should be allowed to spend more time on one than the other, depending on their aptitude.

Helene, I agree. I did music GCSE without any lessons in lower sixth and entered myself. So it was not one of my exams the year before. My sons have done music because they have a music scholarship and were not keen to do a second language but they have not done things like drama, art, PE GCSE although they do masses of sport at school.

They have 3 French lessons a week (and 3 music).

My year 9 son chose French as an option but was told there wasnt enough pupils who wanted to take it up. He now has no option to do a language.

He was gutted as he had his heart set on doing a language.

DD1 has done French and Spanish in year 7. In year 8 she can either continue with both of these or drop one and take either Latin, German of Russian in stead. She is hoping to do French and Latin. This is a girls comp but has languages as its specialism.

Mysoreback. Offering language or sciences is nothing to do with being an academy. Plenty of state schools offer choices of language and 3 sciences. The schools with less bright children tend not to do this as they concentrate on double science and 1 language. A specialist science school or language school will have more choice but these are not necessarily academies.

As many children in this country seem to find learning languages hard and parents cannot wait for their children to drop languages, as is ofter the case on MN, is it any wonder there is patchy language provision? We, as a nation, seem to think other subjects are more important and prefer higher grades from easier options. Children who are good at languages are rarely valued in the same way mathematicians and scientists are (the STEM subjects) and that produces a very narrow vision of what education should be. Everyone celebrates someone going to a medical or veterinary school, but couldn't care less about someone studying two languages which they have learned from the age of 11 or 12.