appeal advice from panel members please

[appealtakingovermylife]

Hi, our appeal is in 2 days, am prepared, documentary evidence sent with my statement and have questions to challenge the school's prejudice.

Ds diagnosed with asc/suffers with bad anxiety.
What I'm wondering is this- do panel members tend to form a judgement from just reading the papers sent to them in advance? As in this is a definite no or this has a good chance.

I'm basing the appeal on the needs of my ds and as per admission criteria for medical/social category " why it's the most suitable school and the problems that would be caused if the child had to attend another school "

64 appeals to be heard, chances are not great but last year there were 51 and 5 were successful, all medical/social.

Any advice would be gratefully received, allocated school too far and no decent back up so got to give it my best shot.
Thanks

I'm not on a panel

does any of your evidence include professionals saying that in their opinion School X is the only suitable school because...

many schools have removed medical and social criteria from their admissions criteria.

Hi SecretSpy, thanks for your message, there is a medical/social criteria that will admit max of 5 dc, they've allocated 4.
My professional letters don't say that the school is the only suitable school but give reasons to back up everything I've said, it's hard to prove that it's the only school as opposed to the most suitable school.

Also saw asc specialist recently for a review ( she wrote an initial supporting letter ) and she wrote another supporting letter which the clerk has sent to panel, and this states my ds anxiety issues have rocketed due to worrying about the allocated school etc etc.

My nerves are gone:(

I am a panelist and of course the papers you receive in advance help you form a judgement, but I always remember a case that looked hopeless but was won by the strength of the parents argument. Personally for anxiety issues I would be looking for reasons why it had to be that school as potentially any would be able to support your son.

I would be asking you questions about why it had to be that school - worrying about the allocated school isn't really a reason. I would also wonder why the schools didn't allocate a place under med/social to begin with. I expect the school will answer that one in their opening statement.

You have to convince the panel why that school is the best one to d/w your sons issues. Think carefully about exactly why you want that school.

Thanks HP, I didn't provide professional documentary evidence in original application, just the diagnosis letter confirming my ds has asc.
It's the only school that is mixed sex catholic excellent Sen dept and reputation for excellent pastoral care, everything that he's used to in primary so basically stability consistency continuity etc.

Allocated school is 5 miles away but two buses each way on his own and ds lacks social skills/awareness and the route is very very busy.imo he's not capable of travelling alone ( I don't drive )

Really have focused on the fundamental reasons with slight comparisons to allocated school. Is my case weak? Starting to panic now!

Thanks

Just to add, allocated school non religion and his anxiety issues regarding this school concern the travelling.
His anxiety rockets with changes to his routine etc, appeal school has a chaplain for counselling too as ds been through a lot last couple of years,, losing very close family members, rejection issues from his dad just to name a few.

the travel is a big issue which you can push ie if desired school is walkable or just one bus to deal with. that is a big argument.

I don't think your case is weak but I think it is one of those that could go either way. If you argue the things that you have stated in your posts above you are in with a good chance. I hope it goes well for you.

I sent you a pm

Good luck with your appeal. I just wondered what questions you have to challenge the schools prejudice? Our hearing is tomorrow and I am really struggling with how to chip away at the schools position, which is pretty water tight given their almost 100% success rate at appeal.

Hi Matlow, it depends really on what your appeal school's case is, ours pretty much focuses on overcrowding, lack of toilets etc etc.
Do you have any specific grounds for appeal because that can help in stage 2 when the panel have to see who's case is stronger, yours or the school.

To be honest I'm not expecting the panel to find the school not full so have concentrated on why it's best for my son.

I've wrote things like "why weren't these overcrowding issues mentioned in the last ofsted report and there were actually more children in the school?"

" average pupil numbers per year is 165, why is the pan set at 150? "
Blah blah.
Good luck tomorrow and come back and let us know how it went. I won't sleep tomorrow night:)

Thanks appealtakingovermylife. Yes the same small site, overcrowding, corridor circulation, no sports grounds, finite resources etc. unfortunately have been unable to get actual class numbers from school. Will try the Ofsted thing and ask how many recorded or reported accidents due to overcrowding etc but will also be concentrating on balancing stage. Fingers crossed for everyone going through this process and heartfelt thanks to all those who have offered words of wisdom along the way.

Matlow, hope today goes well for you:)
I would ask today about pupil numbers for current years 7-11, it may just throw the school a bit.
You're right to concentrate on balancing stage, that's what I'll be doing tomorrow.
I'm also intending to take a picture of ds so the panel will remember him as they're not making their decisions until next Wednesday and are hearing a lot of appeals.
Mumsnet has been a hive of information for me over the last 3 months, some lovely people here, I'm otherwise new.

Good luck!!!

I'm also intending to take a picture of ds so the panel will remember him

Please don't. Many appeal panellists would look on this as a form of emotional blackmail. They and the clerk will have taken notes so they remember the individual cases. At best taking a picture of your ds won't help you. At worst it may alienate the panel meaning they are less likely to give you the benefit of any doubt.

I was also going to advise against the picture. You need to remember, much as it seems that way, it is not emotional or personal. Trying to make it that way will waste your valuable time to put your appeal and yes, could alienate them. Stick to facts.

Thanks to you both for advice re:pic, hadn't thought about it that way and prh have you come across this before?
I do not want to do anything stupid to jeopardise our appeal so will not be taking picture.
A girl I met won an appeal last year in a different part of the country and did this and advised me to do it. Obviously this made no difference to the appeal and it was won on its own merit.
Prh do you find it better if a parent reads from a prepared statement or just talks naturally,, I'm going for the latter.
Really just need to calm down lol.
Thanks again.

I have come across people taking photos to appeals. I have also come across appeal panel members saying that it felt like emotional blackmail. It is one of those things where I think there is no real upside and a lot of potential downside so I wouldn't risk it.

Personally I would talk naturally with some notes to remind me of the important points so that I didn't miss anything, so I'm with you. I know some parents can't cope with that and have to read their statement. I don't think it really makes any difference to the outcome. The only thing I would advise against doing is reading the case you submitted. The panel will already have read it so that would just be a waste of everyone's time.

Hope it goes well tomorrow.

I read my statement out - the school read theirs in Stage 1 so I thought it was fine to read mine. They understand you'll be nervous. The panel were really nice at my appeal - the school not so much

I would also say that I think I went in giving far too much consideration to Stage 1 - I was rushed, didn't have time to ask all the questions I wanted and, even though I had some very valid points to make, I felt like the panel deliberated for all of about 4 seconds before agreeing with the school. So I'd try not to worry too much about that part and concentrate on your case, not the school's.

Good luck!!

I felt like the panel deliberated for all of about 4 seconds before agreeing with the school

In cases where I've been involved there has been no break after stage 1 for the panel to deliberate. The appeal has just gone straight into stage 2. The panel still follows the two stage process once they've heard the case.

Yes, the panels I have been on have never stopped after Part 1 to deliberate in front of the parents, we just make it clear we are now moving on to part 2.

Re the photos, I have seen people bring those folders that nursery staff keep with the photos and record of activities. Occasionally we glance at them if there is time and the poor parent is very upset for example, but there is absolutely no point bringing them.

I remember there was a case once with about 20 pages of newspaper clipping about a kids sporting achievements which was submitted with the papers so was sent out to the panel - sadly all irrelevant.

Don't worry about the panel not remembering your case, I don't think that is a problem especially if there are a lot of reasons why you want the school as in your case.

The only things that have put my back up a bit are a letter from an MP with no obvious reason (i.e. no special need or extenuating circumstance other than the fact the parent wanted the kid to go to the school) and a letter from the Director of a large company who was raving on about how much business Mr X, the dad, had brought to the local area. Both utterly irrelevant.

However both parents were from overseas and probably thought that was the right way to approach matters. To be honest most people do not have the faintest clue how to approach the appeal. I know in our area the LEA staff try to help them but they are very limited in what help they are allowed to give.

Thank you all for advice.
I'm doubting myself one minute and the next I'm brimming with positivity!
Ours is all stage 1 and 2 together tomorrow, school represented by the principal.
If the panel really believe the school is full which it probably is, is it still worth trying to pick holes in their case to show that you've done your homework. If that makes sense?!
I'm fully concentrating on what the panel will consider the balancing stage.

Thanks to everyone who has commented and offered advice, it means a lot x

HPparent I've sent you a pm

I have replied to you by pm.

I have been flamed for saying this before but I have never seen a case won because a parent proves the school can take more children . In my experience if the case is strong enough the panel will use the balancing argument to overcome prejudice caused to the school.

The panel are likely to have heard the same argument re fullness or not over and over and ask the same questions of the school over and over. You can ask questions about what happens when classes go over number and what accidents have been caused in corridoors - careful though we have a school in our area where accidents have happened as a result of overcrowding!

"If the panel really believe the school is full which it probably is, is it still worth trying to pick holes in their case to show that you've done your homework. If that makes sense?!"

You can't possibly know what the panel thinks, so you have to give both parts of the appeal your best. Don't forget that 'full' doesn't mean 'has reached the PAN for the year' or 'the HT thinks the corridors are bursting and there are bound to be accidents soon...' - every appeal for oversubscription will feature that. All HTs will claim that the school can't fit in even one more chair (except the really amusing ones where a panel member sympathises over the nature of the temporary building and the HT says 'oooh no, they're lovely actually...plenty of space... cue LA representative putting their head in their hands).

You have this one opportunity to cast doubt as to the 'fullness' of the year group. Now, it might be that the school is in a huge city, with an old building with tiny classrooms, they're already 6 over PAN because they had 4 Looked After Children allocated and 2 statemented children and all the other year groups have a similar set-up. Fair enough. They may well be truly full. But you have nothing to lose by trying to show that they're not so full that you shouldn't take a place.

Also, any small step you can make towards them being less full than they claim, is one less step you have to show that the prejudice to your DD/DS is greater by not being admitted, than the prejudice to the school for having to take the child.

Don't ignore stage 1.

"I have been flamed for saying this before but I have never seen a case won because a parent proves the school can take more children."

I have.

Good luck and remember; stay calm, stick to facts and don't emote. How you feel is irrelevant really, and takes precious time and energy away from you stating the facts of the case.