DD's GSCE controlled assessments in English being scrapped...

[Kbear]

DD (year 10) has come home from school raging because her English teacher has told the class that their controlled assessments from past two years' work in English are not forming part of their GCSE any more? In the light of no actual information from the school at all to explain this, is there anyone here who can take a stab at why this would be. Apparently the Head of English has decided.... they are going to do iGCSE instead. I have no idea what that is.

A letter will be coming home from school next week I am told but I wondered if anyone here can explain a bit?

I think many of the state grammar schools use IGCSEs as well, particularly for maths and science.

Yes, last two schools haven comps. Have taught all levels from A* to G forecast students. I think IGCSE is a step in the right direction for everyone.

Well I can give a very straightforward comparison on GCSE vs IGCSE for Chemistry.

Ds1 got an A* in GCSE Chemistry last summer and has just sat his AS Chemistry exams. Ds2 is in Y10 doing IGCSE Chemistry - he was revising today for his end of year exams and asked ds1 for help but ds1 said ds2 was doing topics he won't cover until A2!!

Talkin why would many of the top super selective independent schools let their pupils to sit the "lightweight" IGCSE? Logic would tell you that as they and the parents are wanting top grades at A /pre U/IB then they would want their pupils to sit exams that prepare them the best for the 6 th form not ones that do the opposite.
Few on here question the the CIE MFL IGCSEs are more rigorous as the GCSE MFL is widely criticised by teachers, Latin is definitely more rigorous, my DS also compared his math, physics and chemistry paper with his friend AS papers and much of what was on the IGCSE was on the AS paper. In fact his friend who sat only CIE IGCSE papers in another country has also commented, with some surprise, on the similarity and that she's so much better prepared for ASs than her friends at her current school who've sat the GCSEs.
Finally as you probably know Talkin Win Coll is the only school to only offers the more rigorous Pre U, I understand they went over to the CIE IGCSE because they felt it was better preparation for the Pre U. I know the school can be illogical at times but I struggle to accept this they did this because they felt a more "lightweight" would be better preparation.

I do think many school view the lack of course work/controlled assessment or what ever they're called associated with the GCSE's as a good thing. DS1 who sat GCSE's spent a whole terms doing course work/CA for some subjects he was bored stiff. I get the impression DS2 schools ethos on teaching English and other subjects is very non prescriptive with the view to inspiring the boys by reading debating acting experimenting etc and that they would be loth to spend a whole term preparing a CA as this wouldn't really fit in with their teaching approach.
IGCSE's are also seen by the school as one of those things that are required by universities but of little significance to the overall learning experience education of the boys.

OP, this happened to us last year with DS1 who is now in Year 11. The school told us that it wasn't just about grade boundaries, but also that Gove had made it impossible to switch directly from the Language/Lit AQA in Year 10 to separate Language and Literature AQA GCSEs as they had planned. The school switched to CIE iGCSE English Language and Edexcel GCSE English Literature.

The English Language seems to have worked well for DS. He enjoyed the coursework and has achieved the same or higher marks than he did with his original controlled assessments. There have been advantages of a year's extra maturity and being able to produce the work at home rather than in exam conditions.

I'm not quite so sure about the English Literature. It has all seemed a bit crammed, with the kids only having read a third of what they needed to study when it got to the mock exams.

I am genuinely confused about how iGCSEs are considered immune from the grade boundaries problem? Does Gove only have power over GCSEs and not iGCSEs? And even if this is the case, won't the iGCSE boards get fed up with being seen as the easy option and change their grade boundaries anyway?!

I think I'm going to disregard TalkinPeace on this one - ds1 (selective indie) was recently revising for his end of year 7 maths exam and had forgotten set notation for venn diagrams - we looked at some ks3 and GCSE revision guides but could only find the most basic venn diagram examples and no set notation; luckily we spotted an IGCSE maths book. His school regularly win national prizes and awards for science (and send quite a few scientists to Oxbridge as well) so there must be something rigorous about the IGCSEs - or perhaps they're structured to allow teaching to go far beyond the syllabus?

TiP I don't think you are right, at least not when looking at selective London indies.

Private schools started using iGCSE about the time we were doing the rounds of secondary school open days. The general explanation for the switch was that Science and Language departments were concerned that the new GCSE syllabi would not provide a good enough preparation for A level. Given the number of MN threads about the difficult jump from GSCE to AS in French and Chemistry, that sounds reasonable.

The trouble, I assume with both maths and English is that lots of kids need at least a Grade C, which then makes it very hard to differentiate at the top between the able mathematicians/English people and those who have worked hard and been taught well.

DC report that maths iGCSE was not hard, but claim that some of the GSCE papers they practised were even easier. There seems to be a trend towards either teaching well beyond the syllabus or taking Add Maths as well. What can be a difficult hurdle for those wanting that all important grade C in order to move onto college is really not much of a issue in selective schools where A* is the norm. Much more important that kids are on solid ground when they start sixth form.

I will add that the approach of the school seems rubbish. One of my DC changed syllabus half way through (ironically from iGCSE to GCSE). We got a letter explaining why. All fine.

From what I have understood previously, TP is right about the surge in state school entries for English IGCSEs and the advantages of no CA but still coursework. From what I have read the flexibility in the English IGCSE syllabus can used to stretch brighter children by selecting tougher literature.
TP's views unfortunately are always skewed to try to show private school education being a con for many parents and that her DCs are not disadvantaged in the state system. There are elements of truth in her presentation of information but like politically biased broadsheets the interpretation is not objective.

I suspect a lot of schools are teaching beyond the syllabus. I remember ds's work from years 7-9 and it looked like they had cut a chunk out. I can understand why, they are all able children (entrance exam) and a lot of the work in his primary and prep was repeated yearly, just at a slightly more in-depth. The poor lad's done the structure of a plant about 5 times, so by cutting out the bits in the middle he has been challenged (finally!). He's doing things in Chemistry (bonding etc) that I didn't study until A'level.

From what I can gather, the main focus of the IGCSE is the exam at the end, rather than coursework all the way through. There's more focus on spelling and grammar too (which ds loves as he's a true pedant), so would set children up for after they leave.

summerends
I compare my kids with what I got at private school, what their friends get at private school and how kids who move to and from the private schools fit into their cohort.

IGCSEs were much more rigorous than GCSEs of the 2009 and it suited fee paying schools to NOT be directly comparable with oiks (added value and all that)
but GCSEs have upped their game and IGCSEs have stood still
they are different exams and suit different students.

I asked DD if they did the Edexel or the Cambridge and she snorted that even a fool knows to avoid the edexel

so the middle cohort at her comp are taking the same exam paper as the brightest and best at selective fee paying schools.

I've no idea what that implies, but I'll support my kids as much as they need.

Just clicked onto this thread as DD has changed to iGCSE midway through year 10. As I have a younger child as well, I'm keen to at least try and keep on top of the changes that are coming.

Could anyone explain to me whether the change to numerical grading system that is coming to GCSE'S will apply to iGCSE as well ?

OP that would really annoy me. As far as I know it hasn't happened to DD but I have a few friends who have experienced this the last year or two at a couple of different schools and year groups, with several different subjects.

Talkin I am sure that your DC are very lucky to have your support and will do extremely well. Certainly don't use your past experience of London private schools to base your views on how they are now, it would be completely outdated. Teaching in both private and state can be prescriptive and result focussed and exams used simply to generate the best results. Some of your local private secondary schools might be like that.
However ideally schools use the exams they judge allow them flexibility to teach what is appropriate for the level of student they have and therefore the GCSEs or IGCSE level only reflects a small part of what they have learnt.

Talkin you haven't addressed my point. Why would the super selectives use IGCSE's if they were significantly less rigorous that GCSE's, it would be non sensical. To achieve the very highest grades in Pre U/A level/IN then they need their children to embark on this having had the best most rigorous possible preparation.
Talkin I know you are anti independent education and I fully respect your views but don't let this cloud your judgement on all that independent schools do. Not all are hood winking parents into thinking their DC has done better than he really has, many have as Summer says not only choose the most appropriate exam for their pupils but believe their purpose is to offer an education that is challenging broad and a good preparation for university.

I am not anti private schools. I just do not believe that they provide a better education. They are great at segregation and providing self confidence and connections but I firmly believe that they game the league tables the same as any other school.
Why on earth would they not, when their Sunday Times / Telegraph league table rankings are a matter of public record?

A lot of private schools have opted out of the league tables, TalkinPeace, I know ds's has. Compared to the school he was allocated by the LEA, his school does provide a better education. The choices of GCSE's are higher and they are not 'aiming for a 26% GCSE pass rate'. Not all children have access to good state schools.

Dd is not a great mathematicians but I am a specialist maths teacher (primary) with a special interest in maths related learning difficulties. It was clear to me by mid year 10 that she was unlikely to get more than a grade D at gcse (ocr modular) as it was far too wordy with lots of problem solving that she would not be able to make sense even with serious support from me. I tried to get the school to switch her to linear which they were reluctant to do...so I looked at all the boards and papers myself to see which would suit her learning style best and plumped for foundation edexcel igcse (known as level 1/2 certificate in maths for state schools). I entered her for this exam privately at her school. Low and behold, as I anticipated (well hoped), she achieved a D on gcse and a C on the igcse. Maybe the igcse stretches higher attainers too, but in my limited experience, it is better for the C/D borderline (or in dds case a solid, with no borderline in sight, D grade student)

Some state schools have switched to the iGCSE because there is a Jan sitting in English Language. Contrary to Gove's opinion early entry is a huge success from the pupil's POV.

Ladysybil
is your son's data not on the dfe tables ?
I was not aware that educational institutions were allowed to opt out of the government stats

I haven't checked that one TBH They withdrew from the media ones.

But Talkin most of the super selectives have withdrawn from the league tables and the extraordinary A level/Pre U results achieved by some in particular the very high % of A*s achieve by the likes of Westminster Win Coll and SPS just don't correlate with them allowing their pupils to sit IGCSE because they are easier.
Olive I can only comment on the CIE math higher paper which DS2 recently sat when looked over by my DS1's math tutor/current math teacher he thought it was significantly harder than whatever board they use GCSE higher paper. I was frankly stunned by how basic the GCSE foundation level math paper was, this was a linear exam, the level was barely above primary. Although delighted DS1 passed it I don't think it indicates any comprehension or understanding of math in any shape or form.

I though the dfe league tables don't include Pre U's or IGCSE's although of course I could be wrong.

Oh talkin always tries to say that the most selective private schools opt for IGCSEs because they are easier...

Just smile and nod....

Here's the reality.

It is easier to get a C at IGCSE. Perhaps. The questions are more straightforward. The boundaries can't be messed with by Mr Gove.

However, the grade boudaries are higher therefore it is harder to get an A*.

So non selective schools opting for IGCSE are attempting to ease the way for the lowish ability students on the D/C, but are sacrificing those students on the A/A* border.

Selective schools choose them to challenge their pupils and best prepare them for post 16 courses.

Wynken, the numerical grades won't be introduced until the students who are currently in year eight do their exams. This also means that IGCSE or anything else for that matter is just a stop gap to help us find a more level playing field until then ( god knows what we'll do afterwards. I for one am packing it all in). The new spec also includes the complete abolishing of controlled assessment or course work of any kind. It will all be terminal exam.

On a related note I think that many GCSE specs flatter to deceive- the questions are weighty, wordy and suitably confusing but the actual skills tested and the marking criteria isn't.

I know it is a worrying time with coursework but try to trust that teachers are working hard to get it right for their students. Even if it doesn't always seem that way.