Did your child ever have 'the Oxbridge talk' and did it work?

[MrsMot]

Dd has let slip that she and her best friend are among 6 girls in their year (single sex grammar) who are being invited to a talk on Friday where they'll be encouraged to think about applying to Oxbridge for uni.

It's not something she's ever considered, she's very self-deprecating but has a very 'individual' way of thinking - asks questions all time.

As a background, dh didn't go to uni for various reasons but probably should have, I got a solid 2:1 but was the first in the family to do so.

I just wondered if anyone else has had this experience?

The idea that teachers vote for pupils 'to be allowed to apply' to Oxbridge just takes my breath away.

'The idea that teachers vote for pupils 'to be allowed to apply' to Oxbridge just takes my breath away.'

It's very odd ( and I think the management is changing to be fair) To separate these two from everywhere else like this in the light of a changing society where the traditional hegemony of Oxbridge is legitimately questioned when considering higher education is quite an antiquated attitude. It also ignores the fact that some possibly unlikely candidates will make it through the process if you let them try.

And checking the website for a particular school I see that the latest bright idea is to identify the Oxbridge candidates in Years 7,8 and 9 and give them extra opportunities and boost their capacity to think deeply and critically. Well, I think they will find the parents think that is the job they should be doing anyway for their child.

When I visit schools as part of the widening access scheme, I always say the meeting should be open to all, and to be honest, we often get talking about things other than Oxbridge, so it's good for any pupil who might be thinking about tertiary education. Whether schools listen is another matter!

Our school had a long history of choosing their favoured candidates for Oxbridge. They had visits to the universities, special coaching and total backing from the school. The fact that other pupils were not championed at all made for an extremely difficult atmosphere. Why would a school not support a child with 10A* at GCSEs with some very high marks? It just felt wrong that all pupils were not considered if they wanted to be . This was a fee paying school. I can see why LSE and Imperial are at the forefront of Universities but the London experience is very different to other universities as explained above. Engineering at Oxford is also a jack of all trades course. Engineering courses elsewhere may be much better for employment.

Just going to a specific university will not get you employed. Students may find employment more challenging if they do an academic subject not allied to any particular career. Engineers, medics, nurses, vets etc will probably get employment. English, Psychology, Anthropology, Sociology and Arts students might find it more difficult. I do think it is the quality of the student that employers judge when they receive their CV. Doing English at Surrey or Southampton may not get you a job over an English graduate from Oxbridge. In some other disciplines it might. You may be at Oxford but if your CV is thin, you won't look too good against others who have relevant work experience. Oxbridge still opens doors in some professions due to the people doing the choosing who might be Oxbridge themselves. The milk round can be highly selective too.

I've done admissions work for both Oxford and Cambridge. Sounds like some of these school talks are really unhelpful. I'd advise any bright teenager to have a go if the subjects suits you, whether or not the school "selects" you. It's not up to them, and teachers are notoriously bad judges of the real ability levels of very bright kids. I think the real problem is competition with the vast number of highly academically focused kids from the far east who apply with a great deal of success, and whose culture and families put academic performance above everything else. But if you are willing and able to aim for 500+ UCAS points then you are in the game. Just remember that for the most part admissions tutors are interested in the extent to which you are passionate about what you want to study. They are rarely interested in your netball or drama, trips, frankly. Medicine pays more attention to wider personal qualities, but mathematics dons are generally not known for their worries on that front. It's usually about ability and passion for, and focus on your subject. And pick sensible A level subjects - avoid the tosh not on the Russell Group preferred A level list (or pick at most one provided you are already doing at least 4 "proper subjects"). And do extra-curricular stuff related to your proposed subject. If you are wanting to do medicine, wangling some vacation work experience in a local GP surgery/care home is a 1000 times more useful than jerking off on some sports tour. It is all about focus on the goal really. If you can do that - go for it.

Also, Cambridge does not do exams in gowns at all - that's Oxford and it is only a few hours a year. The terms are a bit shorter than elsewhere but the notion that it is 3x the workload is utter nonsense - workload is much more subject dependent.

It doesn't actually matter doing the exam in gowns and sub fusc - at least you can console yourself you've got one thing sorted! Heartening to hear your words rogue dad - schools are there to give teaching, advice, encouragement, support and straight talking, not set themselves up as a selection panel.

Dd had the talk. (Several talks) before that she wasn't even thinking about it, didn't believe she would ever be good enough ( she is looking at a solid clutch of a and a stars at gcse). She sees it now as a possibility, but isn't bothered, she would rather either study abroad or somewhere like Durham. ( though that is a bit close to home)

At my school (many years ago) there was an 'Oxbridge' talk. I was not invited because I was a lazy joker doing PE A Level. When my friends got back they said they were going to Oxford for three days to attend open days and visit colleges.

I fancied three days out for school so I went and told the Head of 6th I wanted to apply. They said I had no hope because of the PE thing. My dad gave them short shrift on the phone and I had three ace days off school applied.

I got in. Many of the 'chosen ones' didn't.

I have been told things are different now though and lazy buggers don't get in just because they are junior international athletes and look good in an open necked blouse.

I went from a mixed inner city Scottish comprehensive to Oxford on the 'Scottish Scheme' and was interviewed at three colleges and offered by one. the first interview they were supercilious gits - asked me stuff they knew I wouldn't know! The second I felt out of my depth but they were charming and the third was a rip roaring discussion I really got stuck into. It is all about people and personalities; not really a level playing field more luck by the interview stage. Shy retiring types lose out in the Oxbridge system though Maths is a unique case. You are either up for it or you aren't but most people only get one interview.

I met my DH there. Our DS has decided Uni is not for him and is setting up his own business, our DD is vaguely interested. If they go they go - not our decision really. We have brought them up to have minds of their own after all

Protego it was all about people and personalities. I don't think it is now.

I had the Oxbridge talk 35 years ago when I was just half way through the Upper Sixth. Worked for me. Would never have considered it otherwise and my parents didn't even want me to go to university.

You do need to be 'different' not just bright though. Met DW on interview and my life changed forever.

Coincidentally. We just had a meeting at my sons school and the Head told us he is identified as potential Oxbridge candidate in Year 9.

I skulked at the back of an Oxbridge talk at DD's school, it was so negative I'm surprised they didn't all run out immediately. DH went in the eighties along with many of our friends and they were all bright, interesting all-rounders. Now, according to the talk I heard, it seems that all they want is single minded geniuses with no interests other than their subjects no room at all for the quite clever but hugely talented rowers and rugby players we know
But then, I look at the DC I know who've got in and there's a fair mix of rocket scientist types and bright, interesting all-rounders.
I think many are scared witless and put off, I know I would have been by the talk I witnessed.
I went to Imperial and UCL, which are both great institutions but the students DH drank studied with now seem more influential with many top politicians, directors and journalists.

I went to a bog standard though perfectly competent northern comp - I was selected for the Oxbridge talk (at local private school) and it totally put the idea of applying in my head - I applied and got in, first in my school to do so. My school told me repeatedly that I wouldn't do so - not maliciously, I just think the teachers had no idea of what Oxbridge is. Every year following my school has sent children.

No idea of how different my life would have been if I hadn't gone but it definitely has helped my career - I work in financial publishing and an Oxford degree very respected, particularly when I worked abroad - Oxbridge were usually the only British universities bosses there has heard of and they rated them (wrongly I think, according to the rankings) with Harvard and MIT etc.

Wouldn't recommend it for everyone though - I think you have to be fairly mouthy to get through the interviews and then the tutorial system. It also really helps if you're good at exams - I knew lots of really bright students who foundered because of the focus just on Mods and Finals.

All of DD's Oxford contemporaries are employed, even those who studied Arts subjects. Many of them are in very lucrative positions. Her school friends who went to Cambridge and studied engineering are also employed - in extremely lucrative jobs in the financial sector. DS attended a top London University; not all of his contemporaries have found suitable well paid employment. This is, of course, just the experience of our family.

Neighbours daughter is about to graduate -all of her class have got jobs in the profession they trained for . She studied pharmacy.

It doesn't prove that everyone who went to that RG university is more employable than those that went to one 40 miles down the road . It's says more about the job market for graduate pharmacists .

Dd went to Oxford and all of her class are employed too. Many of them are not in the field they trained for. They are in general graduate level jobs, which they could have done with a good or even adequate degree from any half decent university .

As you say, it's just anecdotal

cathyandclaire At DS's 6th form college 2 have got offers from Cambridge. Interestingly one is a single minded genius with no interest other than their subjects (this describes my DS to a T) and the other is a bright, interesting all-rounder.
Perhaps it depends on the subject?

That's interesting Secret, I'm glad there's still room for both and I'd have thought that both "types" will offer lots in different ways to college academic, extracurricular and social life.
Lots of congratulations to your DS :)

KristinaM. It says a lot that the Oxbridge people have the jobs that others could have done. Yes they could, but the employers have gone for Oxbridge. That is the influence and power of Oxbridge on the cv.

I'm not sure it does milly

Kids from uni A all got jobs on graduation

Kids from uni B all got jobs on graduation

I don't see how that proves that Uni B is more valuable to have on your cv than uni A . Although I think we are moving away from the OP about school talks for university applicants

Where I work now (financial sector), I have no idea where most of my colleagues went to uni and those who I do know, it bears little relation to how good they are at their job.

Saying that, in my experience and probably because of my area of work (financial/publishing, both quite conservative), an Oxbridge degree definitely helps at the CV screening stage.

Going back to the OP's question, at my Oxbridge talk, I
Remember the Cambridge guy being very open and friendly and the Oxford guy being very snobby and quite off putting (eg, he said state school pupils had a social disadvantage). But I still applied to Oxford, because it was a bigger city, and ending up going there.