The Latymer School (Edmonton) & Woodford County

[Badgerqueen]

Hi,
We are gearing up for grammar school test registration in a slightly ambivalent way, but just thought I would canvas some opinion here. Have been looking on the 11+ forum but wondered about experiences/knowledge.

DD is in yr 5 and 10 years old and getting attainment levels of 5C and above in maths and literacy (these are predicted to be a solid 5b or above for maths and 6 for literacy after this term's assessments) - is this good enough for the CEM tests? She has an aptitude for the non-verbal reasoning, but her vocab is not always great. Not interested in really pushing her (mocks etc) and stressing her out, but trying to gauge if it is worth while pursuing when the competition level is so high - the kids we know who have gone seem super bright - but how do you really know or compare?

Also any knowledge/opinions of the schools themselves most welcome.
Thanks

Why not sign up for the test and have a go? It costs you nothing but a Saturday afternoon.

Whether she gains a place or not, it can be a good experience. Tests and application procedures happen throughout life. Best to get into the habit of giving things a try, even when the odds are against you.

I think a 10 year old is old enough to understand that something is a long shot, but still worth trying anyway. In my opinion, if handled well, there are two possible good outcomes. The first is securing a place- yea! The second, is starting the habit of facing up to stiff challenges; trying; and learning that the world doesn't end if you fail on a particular occasion.

This approach is of course easier to pull off, if you don't throw yourself into endless hours of intense, specialised tutoring for the next 8 months.
Supposedly, the new CEM should mean you don't need to do this. We'll see.

Her levels sound good to me, but my understanding is that the odds are against even the most able children.

Thanks for this very balanced response Toomanyhouseguests; it's difficult not to get sucked into the rather intense & anxious discussions on this subject (although there is surprisingly little on here - am I missing the right threads?), but we can't know the outcome and we definitely don't want to to freak her out.

Using your wise words with her today - I then had to explain what "a long shot" was! Do you have any knowledge of the schools at all?
Thanks!

Not much...
From the gossip I do get, Latymer seems to be the preferred option. It's seen as more balanced. Perhaps because it mixed sex? Lots of downers about Woodford County being all Math and Science, and not allowing the girls to be well rounded. I don't know if it's true. I have no direct experience. I'd love some insight myself.

i have ALOT of direct experience of wch as went through this last year with dd. to summarise, it seems that unless you have your dd tutored ALOT (a few years beforehand and more than once a week a year before, and ALL through the summer holidays, i am not joking) then it would be a miracle if your dd got in!! it seems you need to become a teacher yourself and be an expert in what exam papers your child needs to study/technique etc/timed test papers. put it this way, the two cleverest girls in dd's school didn't get in and one of the few that did isn't even in the top maths set at school. i don't think that alot of the girls that get in are by far the cleverest, more have the pushiest mother... alot of mothers seem to regard a place at the school as something you earn, that the places should go to the child who works the hardest (some mothers wear their childs place as a kind of badge of honour). others (such as myself) think the places should go to the cleverest child (fwiw my dd isn't a genius and shouldn't be going there). i think it has become very middle class which is a real shame as kids from families who cannot afford tutors don't really stand a chance. i know of someone who teaches there and apparently alot of the girls need tutoring as cannot keep up as they are not all naturally very clever. i think the school seemed lovely as did the girls who shoed us around at the open day but i definately don't think dd would have be right there.

btw, despite dd not being clever enough for wch (as stated above) she got level 6 sat's mocks for all three exams and got a scholarship for a different school. my point is, i don't think it is, sadly, about how clever your child is/levels they are at, more about how intensely you are prepared to tutor them (we didn't tutor dd as don't agree with it unless your child is genuinely struggling with ie maths as school). best of luck!

Hi, my DS1 is at Latymer and really thriving there and DS2 will be sitting the test this year. DS1 sat the test before it changed to the CEM format and we did tutor and do past papers etc however our neighbour's DS got a place just going over the past papers over the summer holidays and not intensely either. I don't think you would call either boy super-bright, yes they are bright but not out of the league of the other children by any means.

FWIW DS1 was 5a for Maths at the end of Year 5 but only 4a for literacy and he is getting A grades for English now and towards the top of the top set of 4 for Maths so I don't believe children necessarily do struggle if they need tutoring to get in. I do think DS1 did need tutoring because I don't think his school was stretching him, if they had been I think some familiarisation papers would have been sufficient. I think it would be worth getting some CEM papers and working through problems similar to those posted in the familiarisation paper on the Latymer website (don't know anything about Woodford). I would let her sit them under timed conditions as one of Ds1's friends who failed to get in went to pieces because he hadn't done this, he was similarly bright to DS1 so definitely suited to the school. It needn't be stressful if you do a few over the holidays, I think it is definitely worth trying as it is a great school and really not pressured once the children start, they get way less homework than the comps around here!

Also if your DD likes extracurricular stuff Latymer has a brilliant range of clubs, it is especially strong on music with a huge range of bands and orchestras for all levels of ability.

Apparently, WCH is supposed to increase in size by 50%, and they are changing the test paper. I've heard it will require writing, rather than just NVR and VR. Speculation is that there are too many children there who cannot communicate well in written English.

It will be interesting to see if a few more places and a different entrance test change the character of the school over time.

As it stands now, people in my area will sit for a non-catchment place at Chelmsford (considering moving house or putting dds on the train for an hour each way), but will not consider WCH, when the girls could walk there. Our state primary makes no mention of WCH and offers no information or encouragement, when it is only down the road. It's odd.

It is odd about WCH - its never been on the radar round here either - don't know any one who goes or even thought about going. I do know that they are doing the CEM paper this year and that we should be registering now!

No harm in going to have a look at the open evening I guess, but a maths/science push might not be the best fit. Will think on.

Yes, badger, I think we are in the same boat. I never hear anything good about WCH, but I've signed my dd up for the entrance test and will go to the open evening. My eyes are wide open. I'll be making my own, informed decision. It just wouldn't make sense to be put off by hearsay. On the other hand, I've heard enough to be looking closely.

forgot to add that there seems to be BIG emphasis at wch about how many girls go on to study medicine. I think most the girls that go there go on to do something medical related. dd wants to do something more creative (journalism) so really didn't feel it was her bag of tea (just as well she didn't get in then..)

Yes, I've heard the same thing wintertime. My dd isn't very interested in medicine either. She is also interested in more creative fields. This year she has considered being a children's author, an MP, and a graphic designer.

Are you comfortable sharing where your dd did go to for secondary?

sure, she got a music scholarship to chigwell

Wow! That's great. It always looks like an idyll when I drive by and see the swarth of green lawn. I hope she has a lovely time there.

thanks too, it is a lovely school, it had better be for 7 years of worrying about paying the fees

Still, she was an amazing kid to get a fees reduction! (I know it's still a lot...breath deeply!)