home education has meant our child is not able to access secondary school

[woodlandwonder]

I am wondering whether there is anyone who has had a similar situation happen. We are in Manchester and the admission criteria for oversubscription places anyone at a state funded primary school and academy before anyone else. This has meant that our home educated daughter has not got in, is 87th on the waiting list and on appeal we have lost. We are awaiting their reasons. Despite the admissions code stating they are not allowed to disadvantage a social group our appeal has failed. We are considering ombudsperson, judicial review etc. Has anyone done this? Children at independent schools are also caught by this criteria.

Oh and the 'middle class selection' via feeder schools does not apply as all of Manchester LEA is very mixed. They have defined feeder schools and each High school has a mixture of demographics. I am
Not sure that one school alone can 'pick' it's feeders???

Is there something wrong with the single sex school 4 miles away?

I only ask because I went to a catholic primary and my catholic secondary school was 3.8 mile away and only accessible by taking two buses which I and hundreds of other children did.

I did get a free bus pass back then as it was over 3 miles away so there was no financial hardship for my parents (my two sisters also attended)

Could you not accept that place and then do an in-year transfer to the school you want?

Sorry phone playing up - that meant to say that Stockport have defined feeder schools and each High school has a mixture of demographics. I am not sure that one school alone can 'pick' it's feeders???

In Manchester it would be unusual for a child to go 4 miles unless you really wanted e.g. single sex school. The population density means most go to school within a mile or 2.

OP, as it seems you may be home educating for a while longer anyway, perhaps it would be sensible also to look at ways you can improve your daughter's social life without school.

It's possible that in your area there is a sharp decline in home educated kids at secondary transition age. I don't think that is a typical pattern, however. Perhaps it just appears that way because you don't know the older kids? Some HE kids like a change and go off to school at secondary age, but by the same token some schooled kids who were happy at primary school find that secondary isn't right for them, and leave. My LA, like yours, has a significant HE population. Here, the LA's statistics indicate that nearly twice as many children are being HE in each year of secondary as primary!

Several years ago a well-connected long-time HE mum in my area asserted confidently that there were very few home educated teens around. But once people started asking questions, networking, and setting up the types of events likely to appeal to older kids, it became clear that she was completely mistaken. They appeared in their droves.

A friend of mine once observed that while you would expect kids to need less help connecting with their peers at secondary age, they actually seem to need more help. Adolescents become more particular about the company they keep and the activities they do. They become a bit more self-conscious. Yesterday I chucked my seven-year-old into the park with a handful of similar-aged kids who've just started home education, and they almost immediately began to play together. A few days earlier I had deposited her 14-year-old sister onto a sailing ship to spend a week with a dozen teens she'd never met. She's a very confident kid, but still she had worried: they all know each other, what if they don't like me, what if I say the wrong thing? As I drove off an hour later she was sitting nervously, not yet talking much.

What's more, some older kids have their own circles of friends and organise things for themselves. While they are perfectly friendly and willing to include any newcomers who happen to find them, they don't make much attempt to seek out and welcome new kids. You won't see their get-togethers posted to the HE list - they just invite their pals by Facebook. I am always nagging my dd to make more of an effort to accommodate new kids in the way that we adults do. It can take some perseverance to make a few friends and start learning about all that is happening.

My point is that perhaps there really are throngs of similar-aged kids in your area, but you might need to do some digging to find them. You could set up a group centred around your dd's interests and see if you can attract anyone that way: book club, maybe? Or encourage her to try some after-school clubs she might like. Take her to Hesfes if she'd enjoy that. I'm sure she can broaden her social circle considerably even without going to school.

Saracen. Your comments about your 14 year old and the problems of making friends really suggests that school may be best. You don't have to make that much effort to find friends. No-one needs digging out. The OP is probably right that her own DD needs a school.

Sure, maybe, and it sounds like that is her preferred way forward right now but given that the school is full and she's inclined to carry on HE for a while longer, she may as well explore other ways of helping her daughter to find friends while she waits for a school place to come up.

School certainly does have the advantage of giving easy access to large numbers of kids, that's true. That doesn't equate to finding friends easily, however. Not all kids at school have friends. An adult living in London may have more trouble finding friends than one living in a village.

And there are some real advantages to socialising outside of school. Kids can make friends with others of various ages: my older dd's closest friends range from nine to seventeen. That range provides many different types of relationships, which lack the constant competitive edge of same-age social groups. They can seek out people who share their interests and choose to spend time with them, rather than having to sit next to the person whose name is next alphabetically (or however the teacher arranges the classroom). They have more time to be with their friends, as they aren't subject to a timetable which gives them 40 minutes to have lunch together and decrees that they only get to do English with their friend and nothing else - instead they can spend a whole morning on band practice, or painting, or building robots together. They can dip into many different groups rather than one fixed set of kids, so there is no fear of ostracism, which means less social jockeying and therefore less meanness. They can get some space from people who annoy them.

So it may be worth the effort of seeking out other home educated kids in the area. It can be done as a one-off: we did it when my older dd was seven and there has been no additional investment since, as it snowballs of its own accord.

I thought some of you would like an update. We have contacted local primary schools and a couple of them have spaces and would take our daughter. I called our local high school who told us that currently our daughter is 125th on the waiting list but as soon as she was accepted into a primary school she would become 18th on the list. Does seem bizarre as she will only be in primary for about 4 weeks. She might benefit from meeting children who she would see at high school, although at 18th there is still only an outside chance of her getting a place before September.

One of the main benefits of home ed is the intermingling of ages. I agree that school does not necessarily bring easy friendships. Some of the closest friendships my daughters have are with the neighbours' children and with children from other schools.

Bit misleading in your title OP.

You have been offered a school and that is what the council has to do for you. It is good that the primary can take her.

The reason for the admission criteria (which is not illegal) is that otherwise many places would be taken by kids outside the LEA who would get in on distance above Manchester kids.

You might as well put her into primary for four weeks. She might enjoy the experience.

There is a small chance that she will get a place as lists do change rapidly in the next three months. It sounds like you are trying for an exceptionally popular school if you are now 18th on the list.

What high school is it? Just curious as that's some massive WL!!!

I am sure mightyming the admissions info on line and info on here means it's easy to work out :)

It's not that big a waiting list. Some of the primaries have c90 on wait list. Parrswood had about 800 applications for 300 spaces last year

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/196491/response/490278/attach/html/2/55%2026%20final.xls.html

The waiting list referred to is a secondary school.

Its not that big a wait list bearing in mind the over subscribed schools have e.g. 700-800 preferences for e.g. 300 places. William Hulme is more like 1000 preferences for 250 places. Everyone who puts those schools as 1st choice is automatically then on the waiting list initially. 125th if you are cat 5 and not class 4 (at an LA school) sounds normal. There are spaces at half the high schools in Manchester and huge WL at others.

"The reason for the admission criteria (which is not illegal) is that otherwise many places would be taken by kids outside the LEA who would get in on distance above Manchester kids."

I thought it was illegal to discriminate in an admissions code on grounds of being in a particular borough?

I would be reporting the whole thing to the schools adjudicator. It can't be right to discriminate against home educated children who live close to the school.

I thought it was illegal to discriminate in an admissions code on grounds of being in a particular borough?

The Greenwich judgement ruled that an LA could not have admission criteria that said children living within the LA got priority over those who didn't. The Schools Adjudicator has already ruled that these criteria do not fall foul of the Greenwich judgement on the grounds that children from outside Manchester are able to get places at primary schools in Manchester, giving them priority for secondary schools. It is possible but by no means certain the courts would take a different view if someone chose to take this to judicial review.

These admission criteria have already been referred to the Adjudicator who ruled that they are acceptable. However the question as to whether they comply with the rules regarding feeder schools was not considered so it might be worth someone referring these again and raising that question.

Sorry to drag the whole thing round in a circle again

If I were in the LOp's situation, I would ask that question, as you say, because the whole thing appears to be wrong and against the spirit and intention of the law. And based in loopholes and cunning mechanisms. And ultimately discriminates against Home Edded children.

I do wonder if it should be 'Children at Manchester schools or registered as HEd in the Manchester LEA area and resident. That would still exclude those in private - but people could travel miles into the Manchester private school

Having thought about this a lot, I would be tempted to have another go at the schools adjudicator. Things change with time and it is quite easy to argue that both the Greenwich judgement and Rotherham judgement have some bearing on this along with paras 1.8 and 1.9 of the 2012 school admission code, especially around having to be named feeder schools.
I am not sure that the previous judgement would have been under the 2012 code and therefore any new referral would have to be considered against what is a different set of codes than before.
The other relevant point which seems to have escaped the schools adjudicator the first time round is that there are many primary schools in Manchester that are their own admission authority, who can set their own admission criteria, not necessarily based on distance. The secondary admission arrangement which the schools adjudicator accepted is based on the premis that anybody can get into a primary school as it is based mainly on distance and hence cross LA borders etc.However there a schools that have catchment zones, for instance lots of the faith schools who use parish boundaries to give priority, which could easily lie totally within the manchester LA border.

"I do wonder if it should be 'Children at Manchester schools or registered as HEd in the Manchester LEA area and resident. That would still exclude those in private - but people could travel miles into the Manchester private school"

Why should children at private schools be discriminated against when applying for comprehensive schools. Private education only gives an unfair advantage when applying for grammar schools.

Some of the RC schools do have parish maps which are entirely Manchester. I am not sure how many tho.

I guess the number of people travelling miles to go to one of the private schools then going to comp is limited !!

"I guess the number of people travelling miles to go to one of the private schools then going to comp is limited !!"

You really think so. Sometimes parents choose private primary for better wrap around care. Often people cannot afford the fees of secondary. Sometimes the super rich Daddy loses his job and the family have to transfer to state schools.